First of all, I appreciate that your religion is peaceful and respectful. However, I do not agree with it. My question is on the subject of Joseph Smith. How is it possible to believe in Jesus Christ as perfect and yet think that Joseph Smith had a divinely inspired reason to change the holy Bible and produce the Book of Mormon? If Jesus Christ is omnipotent and glorious, why would he have reason to pick a human to recreate the holy Bible when it had already been completed? My prayer is that you will see God as sovereign and in control. When he is in control, we accept that the holy Bible is the only scriptural revelation of God and that no man need change what God has placed with his hands.
8 Responses to “First of all, I appreciate that your religion is peaceful an…”
Manuel Leal
2008-09-08 02:04:10
I almost didn't approve this question, as it initially struck me as antagonistic and the asker did not leave their email address, but upon further consideration I decided to address it, as I think common. Here are a few comments:
First, I would not classify this asker as "anti-Mormon." He starts by acknowledging that there is good in Mormonism, and then simply states that he disagrees on some doctrinal issues. I thought this question illustrated well the fact that one need not agree to be tolerant.
The asker does, however, make a few logical mistakes by assuming mutually exclusivity where in fact it does not exist. The asker seems to think that one cannot believe in both a perfect Jesus and the message of Joseph Smith. Why not? Joseph Smith taught that Jesus led a perfect life. Likewise, one apparently cannot believe in a perfect Jesus without also believing the Bible to be word-for-word perfect. Why not? Most Christians don't believe the Bible is word-for-word perfect. Finally, the asker seems to think that one cannot believe in a sovereign God and simultaneously believe that God can communicate with His children outside of the Bible. Why not? To limit God's ability to communicate is to limit His power. Do we believe in an omnipotent God or not? All the apparently "obvious" associations the asker suggests are, in fact, non sequitur.
The asker also makes an assumption that is, in my opinion, heretical. God is not the Bible. Mormons love and honor the Bible-our interpretation of the Bible is generally quite literal, and we do believe it contains the word of God as recorded by ancient prophets-but I can't help but cringe when I see people ascribing to the Bible the characteristics that belong to God alone. The Bible is not perfect, God is perfect. The Bible is not omniscient, God is omniscient. I think that Bible worship is one of the greatest forms of idolatry today. The Bible should point us to God; it should not be our God.
The asker also assumes that the Bible is complete (closed), despite the fact that the Bible itself nowhere makes any such claim. In fact, the Bible shows that early Christians believed in ongoing revelation, in an open canon. Christ's words (the gospels) formed the core. Early Church leaders (Peter, Paul) continued to receive revelation from God, and those revelations became scripture. Nowhere does the Bible say that this revelation stopped; we would expect that the true Church today would continue to claim modern revelation. Why can't there be other revelation from God? Why can't God's words also be contained in the Book of Mormon or other revelations given to modern prophets and apostles? There's certainly no Biblical reason to reject additional revelation, despite the claims of a certain segment of Protestant Christianity.
Finally, the asker ends his statement with a straw-man argument. Mormons, of course, do believe that God is sovereign and in control. To suggest otherwise is disingenuous.
James
2008-09-15 06:08:18
I think we should read what the Lord has already written on the matter:
2 Nephi 29:
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written. I reccomend reading the entireity of 2 Nephi 29 .
I would like to focus on part of nine though the entirity of it is wonderful, remember this is written as revelation so the "I" refers to the Lord:
And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
God is in control. He speaks. He will forever speak to guide his children back to him.
The asker has said "... The holy Bible when it had already been completed". The holy Bible is not a single book it is the gathering of many records and writtings by the prophets throughout all of history. The version of 35 books we know now was compiled by man hundreds of years after the Savior's earthly ministry.
In a wonderful talk by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the quorum of the twelve apostles titled "My Word...Never Cease": "The fact of the matter is that virtually every prophet of the Old and New Testament has added scripture to that received by his predecessors. If the Old Testament words of Moses were sufficient, as some could have mistakenly thought them to be, then why, for example, the subsequent prophecies of Isaiah or of Jeremiah, who follows him? To say nothing of Ezekiel and Daniel, of Joel, Amos, and all the rest. If one revelation to one prophet in one moment of time is sufficient for all time, what justifies these many others? What justifies them was made clear by Jehovah himself when he said to Moses, "My works are without end, and my words never cease. "
One protestant scholar has inquired tellingly into the erroneous doctrine of a closed canon. He writes: "On what biblical or historical grounds has the inspiration of God been limited to the written documents that the church now calls its Bible? If the spirit inspired only the written documents of the first century, does that mean that the same spirit does not speak today in the church about matters that are of significant concern? "We humbly ask those same questions."
Anonymous
2008-09-15 06:16:59
I had a few thoughts right off. First I love the webmaster and his calm and non-confrontational replies... I really should learn to be more like him, second I had a few scriptures pop into my mind.
To your question "How is it possible to believe in Jesus Christ as perfect and yet think that Joseph Smith had a divinely inspired reason to change the holy Bible and produce the Book of Mormon?" I give you amos "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "
God came down, ordained Joseph Smith a prophet and then worked through Joseph.
Next we read in Nephi 29 "6 Thou fool, that shall say: a Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.
Second Joseph Smith didn't write the Book of Mormon he translated it and he made some corrections to the King James version of the Bible, with heavenly guidence and inspiration. Third, pertaining to Joseph, Jesus gave a parable in his day about new wine being put into an old wine bottle as follows:
16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Joseph Smith was an unlearned farm boy (new bottle) and not an older, biased, preacher of his time. Plus he was mortal, like the rest of God's children here on earth going through our trial(s) to see "If they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;" (Abraham 3: 25)
Mortals down here are not supose to be perfect in this life, else why would the servents Paul and Nephi both state that 'it is by grace ye are saved', there was only one who came here and lived a perfect life and he wasn't named Joseph Smith.
We aren't perfect, you are not perfect, Joseph Smith wasn't perfect, but he was humble enough to be taught from on hight and used as an instrament in God's hand to bring to light the Book of Mormon as well as placing into the Bible a very few items of doctrine that were removed when 'the gentile nations' and 'mortal assemblies of old Christianity' came together on a comprimise as to what the Bible would contain. Go learn some history on your Bible and see that it is not complete, and I don't know if there is a complete Bible on the earth at present. (See Elder Holland's talk on this subject here http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-851-30,00.html)
Let us both pray for each other, and as you counseled let God be the one in control.
Ronnie Bray
2008-09-15 06:44:41
Thank you for such an insightful question. I hope tp be able to explain things from the perspective of a latter-day saint and do so in the order that your questions fall.
You are correct in that Jesus Christ is a perfect being. However, the perfection of the saviour and redeemer of the world being is not always found in the men he chooses to represent him when he is not personally present leading his church as he did during his earthly ministry.
I suppose that a non-Christian Jew will ask the same question about the need for the Greek scriptures after the 'ha-tanak' had been around and relied on for so many years. A Jew might ask a Christian whether he thinks that God is no longer a perfect divine being since Jesus is come.
Of curse, in either case the question cannot be reduced to a syllogism of "either or." I has been known for many centuries that there are errors in the biblical monographs.
These were first pointed out by rabbinical scholars, but later Christian scholars were forced to agree that certain errors had crept in. Some Protestanbt biblical scholars call these error 'corruptions' and Roman Catholic scholars are also of the same understanding.
I is difficult to recover the original text as it left the hand of the divinely inspired authors of the biblical books, because the originals have been lost, changed, parts omitted, glosses have been subsumed into the text as if they were in the original documents, and there is evidence of downright interpolation to suit particular and changing theological interpretations as time passed and different issues face the community of believers at different sitz im lebens.
As for changes to the Bible, they are as evident in the Bible to those exercised in the scholarly study of the Bible. Further, God alters his will copncerning the rites and practices of his mortal children from time to time, but none of the faithful will reproach God for insisting that Adam and his posterity be herbivorous, then permitting animal flesh to be eaten later, and then changing his mind again and again, for example when he delivered to Moses the Levitical holiness code that proscribed certain animals from being eaten by the congregation of the faithful on grounds that they had been announced by Eloi to be 'unclean, ' 'lo-kashrut', yet in time sweeping that herem aside and commissioning Saint Peter to take the gospels to the nations, rather than limiting the kerygma solely to the house of Israel, and effectively removing the list of forbidden meats of which Israelites could partake.
Joseph Smith made inspired corrections to the Bible - sadly unfinished because his murder intervened before his work was done - because he was inspired by God to make them.
Moses was inspired to write the words he received at Sinai and elsewhere. The words that God delivered to Moses superseded all that believers had received prior to the mosaic dispensation. Thereafter it was a divine requirement that the new commandments be obeyed.
Interestingly, Isaiah and Amos were reformers that steered Israel away from the ancient idea of local numens, teaching that God is universal, which thing Israel had not known or suspected. Their message was that religion - actve faith in God - was a matter for internal conviction, rather than outwards ritual.
For example, a man might make a sacrifice on the temple's altar and outwardly be seen seem to be in compliance with the divine will, yet at the same time as his sacrifice is consumed and the smoke rises to fill the nostrils of God, in his heart he might harbour evil thoughts towards his neighbour or his neighbour's daughter that a truly religious person would not permit to dwell. That dilemma is at the core of the teaching that the letter of the law kills, but the spirit of the law makes a person truly alive, and at one with God and his Christ.
Latter-day saint totally agree with you that almighty God is in charge, in control, and is concerned about the welfare and salvation of his children who sojourn on earthin every clime and in every age.
But it is apparent that God does not micromanage our lives, but he does not prevent natural disasters such as forest fires, tsunamis, earthquakes, the acts of evil men that result in killing and maiming large numbers of innocent men, somen, and children, and he did not intervene when biblical copyists erred in transmitting the words from an old manuscript to a new one.
Therefore, it is our Father in Heaven, your Father and my Father, your God and my God, that has often directed and divinely commissioned servants to carry his word and his reforms to the people of the world.
Just as God called Abraham, Isaac, Jacob [Israel], Moses, Aaron, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Jeremiah, Micah, and so forth, so in our days he has called other men to do his bidding and to call the faithful back onto the path that he has defined, from, which many have strayed, even as Israel did in the Old Testament. God calls uas to repent because he loves us, and since he has revealed that
"Truly the Lord God will do nothing except he revealeth his secrets to his servants the prophets"
God still calls men to serve him and to declare the good tidings of the kingdom and to restore truth when God finds it necessary to do so. Thus, Joseph Smith was called, as was the lad Eli, and many others who are recorded on the pages of scripture.
Shall we demand that God stay his hand for no other reason than that we cannot see the need for him to act, speak, direct, call, commission, etc, or else do his sheep recognise his voice, his work, his requirements, and recognising the good shepherd go running to submit to his yoke? How shall we stand on that question if we do not 'hear these saying of [his] and do them'?
There hjas never been a popular prophet welcomed by the world, for whose salvation they labour, often at the cost of their comfort, their family life, and even their lives, for many have sealed their testmonies with their life blood, as, indeed, did Joseph Smith the prophet.
Joseph did as he was directed by God and the authorised servants of God. Ought he to have kicked against the pricks, because the world was out fo step with the divine will?
Yes Jesus is, as is his father, omnipotent, glorious, perfect, just as his father is perfect, 'For God hath exalted him.'
But mere humans are far from perfect and they make mistakes. Should God be careless of such errors whether malintentioned or the simple result, say, of human fraity, tiredness, failing eyesight, etc.
Who has the right to set the record straight again if not God, and if he wills it done who will tell him he ought not to do it? The folly of God is, the Bible says, higher than the wisdom of men. Recognising the abyss between his folly and our sagacity, who will bebold enough to tell God that he has it wrong? Who will be schoolmaster to the almighty?
The Bible is far from 'completed.' The Bible is not one work, but an amalgamation of many books, collected, and classified according to the intention of the councils - there were many, and they never all agreed - as to what to include, exclude, give priority to, omit, remove, and c.
The Bible is not complete because it does no announce that the heavens were to become brassbound so that the voice of God could speak to man on earth. It is noticeable that the Bible does not teach many modern Christian teachings, for example, the holy trinity.
Your pray for Mormons to recognise God as sovereign and at the helm has been answered for a hundred and twenty years. No Mormon has the slightest difficulty sharing your position on that point.
However, no one who is spiritually attuned to God will ever deny to God the right or power to speak again to man whenever and however he sees fit.
God had to instruct father Noah how to construct the ark, because no man had done that and the available scripture did not tell him how it should be done.
At times and in places and conditions when God has deemed it necessary by his sovereign will [and who will tell him no!?], he has given fresh insights, new directions, commandments that supercede previous commandments, so that wheras circumcision was the token of the covenant between man and God, the regeneration in the waters of baptism by immersion replaced the ancient brith.
God makes changes, and whether we agree with them or not, we have no say in the matter. We will either build our house upon a rock by falling in behin him and rendering obedience and service to him, or else we will build our house on foundations of shiftin sands, and suffer the consequences of our too-weak faith.
The ancient Israelites knew that it was an awsome and terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. The recognition that God was real, dimensional, personable, that he could be present to act or to speak and change the life of those he wished to change direction so that God's vision for the greatest good of the greatest number might be promoted.
Satan cannot make us do evil, and God will not force us to do good. If we do good only because God forces us to do so, then where is the merit in such goodness, and for what will we stand to be judged when that day dawns, for we will not have been free to choose from life and death, darkness and light, ofr to be from above or from below.
The only safe way through life is to place one's trust in God and his servants, for God keeps his promises, and the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ is plain in the prophecies in the Bible.
God is my Father in Heaven, Jesus is his only begotten son and also my Lord, Saviour, Redeemer, and Advocate, and the Holy Ghost blesses my life daily, and I pray that you will also feel the blessings of God for all the good you do and for the sweet spirit that is evident in your question.
May God greatly bless you, and keep you in peace,
Your brother in Christ,
Ronnie Bray [Mormon]
Maili
2009-01-30 05:08:43
The original Book of Mormon manuscript.
I thought it was funny how the questioner suggested that Mormons changed the Bible. Indeed we did not. The Book of Mormon is a separate testament of Jesus Christ while in the Americas. It in not a version of the Bible.
Anonymous
2009-01-31 07:34:14
"We believe in a God who is engaged in our lives, who is not silent, not absent, nor, as Elijah said of the God of the priests of Baal, is he '[on] a journey, or peradventure he sleepeth, and must be [awakened]' (1 Kings 18:27). In this church, even our young primary children recite, 'We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the kingdom of God' (Articles of Faith 1:9). "In declaring new scripture and continuing revelation, we pray we will never be arrogant or insensitive. But after a sacred vision in a now sacred grove answered in the affirmative the question 'Does God exist?' what Joseph Smith and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints force us to face is the next interrogative, which necessarily follows: 'Does he speak?' We bring the good news that he does and that he has. With a love and affection born of our Christianity, we invite all to inquire into the wonder of what God has said since biblical times and is saying even now." In a sense Joseph Smith and his prophetic successors in this church answer the challenge Ralph Waldo Emerson put to the students of the Harvard Divinity school 170 years ago.... The great sage of concord pled that they teach 'that God is, not was; that he speaketh, not spake' (an address, "The complete writings of Ralph Waldo Emerson [1929], 45)." Jeffrey R. Holland, "My words... Never cease," Ensign, May 2008, 93
Anonymous
2009-02-02 00:43:24
Not to downplay your question, but the Bible we have today in the LDS church is the King James version of the Bible, and one of the most wide spread Bibles in the U.S. if not the world. There are several pages dedicated to the history of the Bible that you can read up on by doing a google search for "origins of the King James Bible" or simply "origins of the Bible"
The Book of Mormon adds more scripture, as does the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and finally the word spoken by living prophets today.
Holding onto the Bible as the only word that God ever intended to reveal to the children of men is cutting yourself short of the continuing true word. God isn't dead, nor does he sleep, so why does man think to assume that he is?
Manuel Leal
2009-04-20 05:33:22
This video does a wonderful job of explaining the Mormon concept of modern revelation and an open canon:
2 Nephi 29:
6 Thou fool, that shall say: A Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
I reccomend reading the entireity of 2 Nephi 29 .
I would like to focus on part of nine though the entirity of it is wonderful, remember this is written as revelation so the "I" refers to the Lord:
And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
God is in control. He speaks. He will forever speak to guide his children back to him.
The asker has said "... The holy Bible when it had already been completed". The holy Bible is not a single book it is the gathering of many records and writtings by the prophets throughout all of history. The version of 35 books we know now was compiled by man hundreds of years after the Savior's earthly ministry.
In a wonderful talk by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the quorum of the twelve apostles titled "My Word...Never Cease": "The fact of the matter is that virtually every prophet of the Old and New Testament has added scripture to that received by his predecessors. If the Old Testament words of Moses were sufficient, as some could have mistakenly thought them to be, then why, for example, the subsequent prophecies of Isaiah or of Jeremiah, who follows him? To say nothing of Ezekiel and Daniel, of Joel, Amos, and all the rest. If one revelation to one prophet in one moment of time is sufficient for all time, what justifies these many others? What justifies them was made clear by Jehovah himself when he said to Moses, "My works are without end, and my words never cease. "
One protestant scholar has inquired tellingly into the erroneous doctrine of a closed canon. He writes: "On what biblical or historical grounds has the inspiration of God been limited to the written documents that the church now calls its Bible? If the spirit inspired only the written documents of the first century, does that mean that the same spirit does not speak today in the church about matters that are of significant concern? "We humbly ask those same questions."
To your question "How is it possible to believe in Jesus Christ as perfect and yet think that Joseph Smith had a divinely inspired reason to change the holy Bible and produce the Book of Mormon?" I give you amos "Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. "
God came down, ordained Joseph Smith a prophet and then worked through Joseph.
Next we read in Nephi 29 "6 Thou fool, that shall say: a Bible, we have got a Bible, and we need no more Bible. Have ye obtained a Bible save it were by the Jews?
7 Know ye not that there are more nations than one? Know ye not that I, the Lord your God, have created all men, and that I remember those who are upon the isles of the sea; and that I rule in the heavens above and in the earth beneath; and I bring forth my word unto the children of men, yea, even upon all the nations of the earth?
8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two nations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.
9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.
10 Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written.
11 For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written.
12 For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it.
13 And it shall come to pass that the Jews shall have the words of the Nephites, and the Nephites shall have the words of the Jews; and the Nephites and the Jews shall have the words of the lost tribes of Israel; and the lost tribes of Israel shall have the words of the Nephites and the Jews.
Second Joseph Smith didn't write the Book of Mormon he translated it and he made some corrections to the King James version of the Bible, with heavenly guidence and inspiration. Third, pertaining to Joseph, Jesus gave a parable in his day about new wine being put into an old wine bottle as follows:
16 No man putteth a piece of new cloth unto an old garment, for that which is put in to fill it up taketh from the garment, and the rent is made worse.
17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Joseph Smith was an unlearned farm boy (new bottle) and not an older, biased, preacher of his time. Plus he was mortal, like the rest of God's children here on earth going through our trial(s) to see "If they will do all things whatsoever the Lord their God shall command them;" (Abraham 3: 25)
Mortals down here are not supose to be perfect in this life, else why would the servents Paul and Nephi both state that 'it is by grace ye are saved', there was only one who came here and lived a perfect life and he wasn't named Joseph Smith.
We aren't perfect, you are not perfect, Joseph Smith wasn't perfect, but he was humble enough to be taught from on hight and used as an instrament in God's hand to bring to light the Book of Mormon as well as placing into the Bible a very few items of doctrine that were removed when 'the gentile nations' and 'mortal assemblies of old Christianity' came together on a comprimise as to what the Bible would contain. Go learn some history on your Bible and see that it is not complete, and I don't know if there is a complete Bible on the earth at present. (See Elder Holland's talk on this subject here http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-851-30,00.html)
Let us both pray for each other, and as you counseled let God be the one in control.
You are correct in that Jesus Christ is a perfect being. However, the perfection of the saviour and redeemer of the world being is not always found in the men he chooses to represent him when he is not personally present leading his church as he did during his earthly ministry.
I suppose that a non-Christian Jew will ask the same question about the need for the Greek scriptures after the 'ha-tanak' had been around and relied on for so many years. A Jew might ask a Christian whether he thinks that God is no longer a perfect divine being since Jesus is come.
Of curse, in either case the question cannot be reduced to a syllogism of "either or." I has been known for many centuries that there are errors in the biblical monographs.
These were first pointed out by rabbinical scholars, but later Christian scholars were forced to agree that certain errors had crept in. Some Protestanbt biblical scholars call these error 'corruptions' and Roman Catholic scholars are also of the same understanding.
I is difficult to recover the original text as it left the hand of the divinely inspired authors of the biblical books, because the originals have been lost, changed, parts omitted, glosses have been subsumed into the text as if they were in the original documents, and there is evidence of downright interpolation to suit particular and changing theological interpretations as time passed and different issues face the community of believers at different sitz im lebens.
As for changes to the Bible, they are as evident in the Bible to those exercised in the scholarly study of the Bible. Further, God alters his will copncerning the rites and practices of his mortal children from time to time, but none of the faithful will reproach God for insisting that Adam and his posterity be herbivorous, then permitting animal flesh to be eaten later, and then changing his mind again and again, for example when he delivered to Moses the Levitical holiness code that proscribed certain animals from being eaten by the congregation of the faithful on grounds that they had been announced by Eloi to be 'unclean, ' 'lo-kashrut', yet in time sweeping that herem aside and commissioning Saint Peter to take the gospels to the nations, rather than limiting the kerygma solely to the house of Israel, and effectively removing the list of forbidden meats of which Israelites could partake.
Joseph Smith made inspired corrections to the Bible - sadly unfinished because his murder intervened before his work was done - because he was inspired by God to make them.
Moses was inspired to write the words he received at Sinai and elsewhere. The words that God delivered to Moses superseded all that believers had received prior to the mosaic dispensation. Thereafter it was a divine requirement that the new commandments be obeyed.
Interestingly, Isaiah and Amos were reformers that steered Israel away from the ancient idea of local numens, teaching that God is universal, which thing Israel had not known or suspected. Their message was that religion - actve faith in God - was a matter for internal conviction, rather than outwards ritual.
For example, a man might make a sacrifice on the temple's altar and outwardly be seen seem to be in compliance with the divine will, yet at the same time as his sacrifice is consumed and the smoke rises to fill the nostrils of God, in his heart he might harbour evil thoughts towards his neighbour or his neighbour's daughter that a truly religious person would not permit to dwell. That dilemma is at the core of the teaching that the letter of the law kills, but the spirit of the law makes a person truly alive, and at one with God and his Christ.
Latter-day saint totally agree with you that almighty God is in charge, in control, and is concerned about the welfare and salvation of his children who sojourn on earthin every clime and in every age.
But it is apparent that God does not micromanage our lives, but he does not prevent natural disasters such as forest fires, tsunamis, earthquakes, the acts of evil men that result in killing and maiming large numbers of innocent men, somen, and children, and he did not intervene when biblical copyists erred in transmitting the words from an old manuscript to a new one.
Therefore, it is our Father in Heaven, your Father and my Father, your God and my God, that has often directed and divinely commissioned servants to carry his word and his reforms to the people of the world.
Just as God called Abraham, Isaac, Jacob [Israel], Moses, Aaron, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Amos, Jeremiah, Micah, and so forth, so in our days he has called other men to do his bidding and to call the faithful back onto the path that he has defined, from, which many have strayed, even as Israel did in the Old Testament. God calls uas to repent because he loves us, and since he has revealed that
"Truly the Lord God will do nothing except he revealeth his secrets to his servants the prophets"
God still calls men to serve him and to declare the good tidings of the kingdom and to restore truth when God finds it necessary to do so. Thus, Joseph Smith was called, as was the lad Eli, and many others who are recorded on the pages of scripture.
Shall we demand that God stay his hand for no other reason than that we cannot see the need for him to act, speak, direct, call, commission, etc, or else do his sheep recognise his voice, his work, his requirements, and recognising the good shepherd go running to submit to his yoke? How shall we stand on that question if we do not 'hear these saying of [his] and do them'?
There hjas never been a popular prophet welcomed by the world, for whose salvation they labour, often at the cost of their comfort, their family life, and even their lives, for many have sealed their testmonies with their life blood, as, indeed, did Joseph Smith the prophet.
Joseph did as he was directed by God and the authorised servants of God. Ought he to have kicked against the pricks, because the world was out fo step with the divine will?
Yes Jesus is, as is his father, omnipotent, glorious, perfect, just as his father is perfect, 'For God hath exalted him.'
But mere humans are far from perfect and they make mistakes. Should God be careless of such errors whether malintentioned or the simple result, say, of human fraity, tiredness, failing eyesight, etc.
Who has the right to set the record straight again if not God, and if he wills it done who will tell him he ought not to do it? The folly of God is, the Bible says, higher than the wisdom of men. Recognising the abyss between his folly and our sagacity, who will bebold enough to tell God that he has it wrong? Who will be schoolmaster to the almighty?
The Bible is far from 'completed.' The Bible is not one work, but an amalgamation of many books, collected, and classified according to the intention of the councils - there were many, and they never all agreed - as to what to include, exclude, give priority to, omit, remove, and c.
The Bible is not complete because it does no announce that the heavens were to become brassbound so that the voice of God could speak to man on earth. It is noticeable that the Bible does not teach many modern Christian teachings, for example, the holy trinity.
Your pray for Mormons to recognise God as sovereign and at the helm has been answered for a hundred and twenty years. No Mormon has the slightest difficulty sharing your position on that point.
However, no one who is spiritually attuned to God will ever deny to God the right or power to speak again to man whenever and however he sees fit.
God had to instruct father Noah how to construct the ark, because no man had done that and the available scripture did not tell him how it should be done.
At times and in places and conditions when God has deemed it necessary by his sovereign will [and who will tell him no!?], he has given fresh insights, new directions, commandments that supercede previous commandments, so that wheras circumcision was the token of the covenant between man and God, the regeneration in the waters of baptism by immersion replaced the ancient brith.
God makes changes, and whether we agree with them or not, we have no say in the matter. We will either build our house upon a rock by falling in behin him and rendering obedience and service to him, or else we will build our house on foundations of shiftin sands, and suffer the consequences of our too-weak faith.
The ancient Israelites knew that it was an awsome and terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God. The recognition that God was real, dimensional, personable, that he could be present to act or to speak and change the life of those he wished to change direction so that God's vision for the greatest good of the greatest number might be promoted.
Satan cannot make us do evil, and God will not force us to do good. If we do good only because God forces us to do so, then where is the merit in such goodness, and for what will we stand to be judged when that day dawns, for we will not have been free to choose from life and death, darkness and light, ofr to be from above or from below.
The only safe way through life is to place one's trust in God and his servants, for God keeps his promises, and the restoration of the gospel of Jesus Christ is plain in the prophecies in the Bible.
God is my Father in Heaven, Jesus is his only begotten son and also my Lord, Saviour, Redeemer, and Advocate, and the Holy Ghost blesses my life daily, and I pray that you will also feel the blessings of God for all the good you do and for the sweet spirit that is evident in your question.
May God greatly bless you, and keep you in peace,
Your brother in Christ,
Ronnie Bray [Mormon]
The Book of Mormon adds more scripture, as does the Doctrine and Covenants, the Pearl of Great Price, and finally the word spoken by living prophets today.
Holding onto the Bible as the only word that God ever intended to reveal to the children of men is cutting yourself short of the continuing true word. God isn't dead, nor does he sleep, so why does man think to assume that he is?