I barely know the basics of the Mormon faith so I apologize for articulating a belief wrong if I do so in my question. I was wondering about the belief that God was a man in a previous life and on a different earth. Did this man become glorified and is now the God of our earth? Is the God of his world that he lived in as a human a trinity of persons too?
4 Responses to “I barely know the basics of the Mormon faith so I apologize …”
Miguel Leal
2007-08-17 07:17:06
I'd like to thank you for your very articulate question. The notion that God was once a man has been taught by some past leaders of the LDS Church but is not currently emphasized in Church sermons or Church publications. In fact, it is one of those "peripheral doctrines" that one need not believe to be a faithful Mormon (as opposed to "core doctrines" regarding Christ and restorationalism). (Here's an interesting article that draws a distinction between "core doctrines" and "peripheral doctrines.")
Even years ago when it was mentioned with somewhat greater frequency in Church sermons and publications, my impression is that the notion that God was once a man was never a well developed doctrine, meaning a doctrine about which anyone could claim extensive knowledge or on which anyone could elaborate. The current president of the LDS Church (the "Mormon Pope") has himself said publicly that it is a teaching he does not understand.
While intellectually I'm open-mindedly skeptical about this teaching, spiritually I am apathetic towards it. It has absolutely no bearing on my personal salvation, and I'm confident God doesn't care whether or not I fully understand His existence. What matters is my devotion to Jesus Christ and my personal efforts to follow Him.
I suspect that your question will illicit many differing views. Hopefully other members of the church will post their takes on this "doctrine" as well.
Anonymous
2008-06-09 04:08:13
My feeling is this is one of those "Did Adam and Eve have belly-buttons?" Questions... We are not given all the answers in this life, and it's pointless to seek things beyond our understanding. All things that are required for you and I to achieve a state where this (and the belly-button) question will be answered... The only thougth that comes to mind as per a direct answer is this quote given by a general authority.
"As man now is God once was, as God now is man may become. "
Webmaster: I think this answer is excellent. We simply don't need to know these kind of details to be saved through Jesus Christ. I would add, though, that a far more recent General Authority than Lorenzo Snow (the source of the above couplet) has expressed uncertainty about the idea that God was once a man. Gordon B. Hinckley, the recently deceased president of the LDS Church, has been asked this very question on several occasions. Here are some of his responses (verbatim or reported):
"There was a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about...Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly. We believe that the glory of God is intelligence and whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the Resurrection."
"President Gordon Hinckley says the concept of God having been a man is not stressed any longer, but he does believe that human beings can become [more like God] in the afterlife."
"On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain. I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it...I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."
Anonymous
2008-06-30 05:36:41
I'm going to answer your question going backwards so let us start first with your mention of the Trinity. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland of the quorum of the twleve, in an address given on October 11, 2007, gave us this bit of revelation "Our first and foremost article of faith in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is "we believe in God, the eternal Father, and in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." We believe these three divine persons constituting a single Godhead are united in purpose, in manner, in testimony, in mission. We believe them to be filled with the same Godly sense of mercy and love, justice and grace, patience, forgiveness, and redemption. I think it is accurate to say we believe they are one in every significant and eternal aspect imaginable except believing them to be three persons combined in one substance, a trinitarian notion never set forth in the scriptures because it is not true.
Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper's Bible dictionary records that "the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament]."
So any criticism that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not hold the contemporary Christian view of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is not a comment about our commitment to Christ but rather a recognition (accurate, I might add) that our view of the Godhead breaks with postNew Testament Christian history and returns to the doctrine taught by Jesus himself."
The member of the Godhead that came to the earth in the miridian of time was his Son, Jesus Christ. (To further illistrate this piont I would recomend a good reading of James Talmage's "Jesus the Christ")
As to your second and first questions I feel the answer is simply yes. On grounds we are given this bit of revelation by Lorenzo Snow, the 5th president of the church, -"As man now is God once was "
That is my testimony and I pray that the Holy Ghost might be with it to witness to you if it be true or false. Jesus' name, amen.
Webmaster: Thanks for your comment, Anonymous. This question of trinitarianism is very complicated because both Mormons and many Christians often confuse trinitarianism with modalism. Ironically, many Christians who think they are trinitarian are actually modalists! Mormons are definitely not modalists, but we incorrectly associate modalism with trinitarianism and so at times reject "Trinity" in word while accepting it in practice. With all due respect to Elder Holland, who is one of my favorite apostles, I think he's actually decrying modalism. In reality, Mormons believe in a slightly modified version of trinitarianism quite similar to "social trinitarianism" as advocated by the Christian theologians Karl Rahner and Jürgen Moltmann. Also, regarding the couplet by President Snow, please see my comment above with more recent statements by President Hinckley. I do not think this is a settled question in Mormon theology.
Adam
2008-06-01 22:29:39
Well for some mormons, we go back to the teachings of Joseph Smith. Jospeh said that God is "An exalted man enthroned in yonder heavens." This would imply that he was a man at one time who went through the process of mortality, death, ressurection, and exaltation. But like previously stated, it really has no affect on your salvation it's a revelation about the nature of God.
Webmaster: Also worth noting that the fact that God is an exalted man does not necessarily imply that he was once a fallen man. Other Joseph-Smith statements seems to imply otherwise, and, of course, none of these statements are canonical in Mormonism.
Even years ago when it was mentioned with somewhat greater frequency in Church sermons and publications, my impression is that the notion that God was once a man was never a well developed doctrine, meaning a doctrine about which anyone could claim extensive knowledge or on which anyone could elaborate. The current president of the LDS Church (the "Mormon Pope") has himself said publicly that it is a teaching he does not understand.
While intellectually I'm open-mindedly skeptical about this teaching, spiritually I am apathetic towards it. It has absolutely no bearing on my personal salvation, and I'm confident God doesn't care whether or not I fully understand His existence. What matters is my devotion to Jesus Christ and my personal efforts to follow Him.
I suspect that your question will illicit many differing views. Hopefully other members of the church will post their takes on this "doctrine" as well.
"As man now is God once was, as God now is man may become. "
Webmaster: I think this answer is excellent. We simply don't need to know these kind of details to be saved through Jesus Christ. I would add, though, that a far more recent General Authority than Lorenzo Snow (the source of the above couplet) has expressed uncertainty about the idea that God was once a man. Gordon B. Hinckley, the recently deceased president of the LDS Church, has been asked this very question on several occasions. Here are some of his responses (verbatim or reported):
"There was a little couplet coined, 'As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become.' Now that's more of a couplet than anything else. That gets into some pretty deep theology that we don't know very much about...Well, as God is, man may become. We believe in eternal progression. Very strongly. We believe that the glory of God is intelligence and whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the Resurrection."
"President Gordon Hinckley says the concept of God having been a man is not stressed any longer, but he does believe that human beings can become [more like God] in the afterlife."
"On whether his church still holds that God the Father was once a man, he sounded uncertain. I don't know that we teach it. I don't know that we emphasize it...I understand the philosophical background behind it, but I don't know a lot about it, and I don't think others know a lot about it."
Indeed no less a source than the stalwart Harper's Bible dictionary records that "the formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the [New Testament]."
So any criticism that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not hold the contemporary Christian view of God, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost is not a comment about our commitment to Christ but rather a recognition (accurate, I might add) that our view of the Godhead breaks with postNew Testament Christian history and returns to the doctrine taught by Jesus himself."
The member of the Godhead that came to the earth in the miridian of time was his Son, Jesus Christ. (To further illistrate this piont I would recomend a good reading of James Talmage's "Jesus the Christ")
As to your second and first questions I feel the answer is simply yes. On grounds we are given this bit of revelation by Lorenzo Snow, the 5th president of the church, -"As man now is God once was "
That is my testimony and I pray that the Holy Ghost might be with it to witness to you if it be true or false. Jesus' name, amen.
Webmaster: Thanks for your comment, Anonymous. This question of trinitarianism is very complicated because both Mormons and many Christians often confuse trinitarianism with modalism. Ironically, many Christians who think they are trinitarian are actually modalists! Mormons are definitely not modalists, but we incorrectly associate modalism with trinitarianism and so at times reject "Trinity" in word while accepting it in practice. With all due respect to Elder Holland, who is one of my favorite apostles, I think he's actually decrying modalism. In reality, Mormons believe in a slightly modified version of trinitarianism quite similar to "social trinitarianism" as advocated by the Christian theologians Karl Rahner and Jürgen Moltmann. Also, regarding the couplet by President Snow, please see my comment above with more recent statements by President Hinckley. I do not think this is a settled question in Mormon theology.
Webmaster: Also worth noting that the fact that God is an exalted man does not necessarily imply that he was once a fallen man. Other Joseph-Smith statements seems to imply otherwise, and, of course, none of these statements are canonical in Mormonism.