Was baptized several yrs ago in the “mormon” faith, but eventually left. Have struggled over the yrs with the idea that Adam and Eve had to “sin”…? Whenever I was at a meeting I always felt an inner peace… Simply confused. Age 65 male. Thanks.
4 Responses to “Was baptized several yrs ago in the “mormon” faith, but even…”
Mateo Duarte
2008-05-04 22:15:58
Hi Richard.
I'm happy to hear that you felt God's spirit when you went to Church. Know that you're always welcome back! The doctrinal question you mentioned is interesting, but it isn't central to Mormonism. One could easily be a practicing Mormon without having a full understanding of the Adam-and-Eve question.
Here's my understanding of Adam and Eve's "sin." Before the creation of the earth, our spirits lived in the presence of God. We loved God our Father and, like all children, wanted to be more like Him. To become more like God, who is all-knowing and corporeal, we need to gain bodies, come to know pain, come to know the temptations associated with a physical body, and learn to overcome those temptations. The road to becoming more like God would be hard and at times unpleasant, but God knew it would be worth it.
God is infinitely merciful, so He wanted to give us the opportunity to become more like Him. However, He is also infinitely just, and so He could not force the human family into an at-times unpleasant mortal world. Humanity had to choose to walk the challenging path of mortality in order to become more like the Father.
God, as always, found a brilliant solution to this mercy-vs-justice dilemma. He showed His mercy by sending humanity to a physical world, where men and women could learn to become more like Him. He showed His justice by requiring humanity to choose for itself whether it would enter a mortal world, rather than unjustly forcing the challenges and pains of mortality upon His children.
As you know, humanity did choose to enter the mortal world, as symbolized by the partaking of the forbidden fruit. We traditionally call that act a "sin" or a "transgression." This is perhaps a misnomer. To "sin" is to intentionally act contrary to God's will. It was in fact God's will that humanity fall so it could gain experience, learn to become more like God, be redeemed through Christ, and return to God's presence. One could argue that because Adam and Eve did God's will, they did not technically "sin." Good luck trying to get 13 million Mormons to change their vocabulary!
Anonymous
2008-05-07 06:14:03
I love this question! I also love God's plan and his wisdom.
First I will point out that in the garden we read Genisis 1: 28 God's first commandment to Adam - "And God blessed (His creations), and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. "
So then we read the book of Moses (because the Book of Moses is more plain) the second commandment found in Moses 3: 16 "And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat," Then God gives the warning Ibid 3: 17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. "
Then we have God creating Eve after both of those commandments were given by God to Adam (back to) Genisis 2: 21-22 "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; and the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. "
As we know that woman was called Eve and was given to Adam for "helpmeet" or in other words "equal help" for and to Adam. We then, by logic we believe, Eve was taught by Adam all the first commandments of God.
We don't know by the scriptures all of the interactions in the garden, but we do know that Adam and Eve were joined together by God's sealing power and thus were married.
Time passed and enter the evil one... Lucifer... Who acted as follows (back to Moses 4: 6-13) "And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world. And he said unto the woman: yea, hath God saidye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (and he spake by the mouth of the serpent.) and the woman (remembering the first commandment of God) said unto the serpent: we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; (and now recalling the second commantment added) but of the fruit of the tree which thou beholdest in the midst of the garden, God hath saidye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman: ye shall not surely die; for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it became pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make her wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and also gave unto her husband with her, and he did eat."
I feel this is probably the part of scripture that bothers you, but it's perfectly in order with the justice and the plan of God. And to which we read later Adam and Eve's reaction to the whole situation after hearing of Jesus' atonement to be (Moses 5: 10-11) Adam - "Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God." "and Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. "
Interesting to point out here that the first commandment to be fruitful and multiply couldn't have been kept except their minds were made aware and they knew how to multiply and replenish.
God gave man and women their agency to choose for themselves. This agency was given before the garden of eden. In fact that was what the whole war in heaven was about. Lucifer wanted to force everyone to be perfect and make it back to heaven, but it that were possible and correct don't ya think God would have done it that way in the first place? But if everything is force upon, or done for us, us we learn nothing but stay innocent and never grow.
I don't know if you're a father, but in having kids you learn that it's in their discovering the path of correctness and happiness they learn it and become wise. Satan's plan of forcing everyone to heaven couldn't have worked because it would have been a group of babies, clothed in flesh, that would have known nothing. Then we would have been no better off then when we started except then we would have had bodies, and no knowledge on how to control the impulses within them.
That's not like being as God that would be like a bunch of drunken frat party kids at a backwoods school that teaches how to obey the school master. Where is the joy in that? It's in acomplishment and helping others that joy is found, not by doing what you are forced to do.... Again ask your kids.
The good news here is that you're re-looking at the gospel and God is always there to welcome prodical's home. I quote president Packer
"There is no sin so great, no trangression so vile, no rebellion so long that is exempt from a full and complete forgivness through the atonement of our lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
His hand is stretched out still brother! Seek him and ye shall find, knock and his door shall be opened unto you!
And thus we'll go forward, one labored step at a time, in faith knowing that Jesus is there waiting with open arms and a smile. And when we get knocked back we use our agency to get up and start forward again, for we know the day is not over, the judment is not yet, and there are no failures in the gospel of Jesus, just quiters.
In his holy name Jesus Christ, amen.
Geoff Cox
2008-09-15 06:58:58
Heavenly Father placed Adam and Eve in the garden and commanded them to multiply - have a family, and not eat of the fruit of "that tree". The Old Testament gives the impression that Eve did something morally wrong by partaking of the fruit. Modern revelation helps us understand that Heavenly Father gave them the choice to stay in the garden or leave the garden into a world where there is death, and choices. Satan correctly stated that if she did not partake of the fruit, she could not have knowledge, like Heavenly Father. Eve correctly understood the choice, and partook of the fruit. She did transgress a law, with a consequence. However, this is exactly how the plan of salvation was designed, with Adam and Eve representing us in the garden, and choosing to start the next phase of the plan.
Therefore, Eve did the right thing! When Adam understood, he partook of the fruit. We honor mother Eve and her choice. Please understand that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers this "original sin". It does not pass to you or me or our children. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adams transgression.
Jesus was prepared before the foundation of this world, before the garden of Eden was planted, before the earth was made, to perform the atonement. If he was prepared before, Heavenly Father knew that Adam and Eve would eventually partake of the fruit.
The garden of Eden was about our father allowing his children to choose their path, with Jesus already prepared to solve any problems we would encounter through the atonement if we would listen and obey his teachings.
Pamela Dean
2009-08-18 19:16:15
I wondered about this too for a long time, both before and after becoming a member. One thing that I found comfort in was that our church doesn't condemn Eve like so many other Christian churches do! More info on what other churches believe about the fall can be found at wikipedia.org. James E. Faust said in "What it Means to be a Daughter of God" (Ensign, Nov 1999, 100): We all owe a great debt of gratitude to Eve. In the Garden of Eden, she and Adam were instructed not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. However, they were also reminded, "Thou mayest choose for thyself." (Moses 3: 17) The choice was really between a continuation of their comfortable existence in Eden, where they would never progress, or a momentous exit into mortality with its opposites: pain, trials, and physical death in contrast to joy, growth, and the potential for eternal life. In contemplating this choice, we are told, 'and when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and a tree to be desired to make her wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and also gave unto her husband with her, and he did eat.' (Moses 4:12) And thus began their earthly probation and parenthood. After the choice was made, Adam voiced this grateful expression: 'Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God.' (Moses 5: 10) Eve made an even greater statement of visionary wisdom after leaving the Garden of Eden: 'Were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient.' (Moses 5: 11) If it hadn't been for Eve, none of us would be here. Father Lehi shares with us: 'But behold, all things have been done in the wisdom of him who knoweth all things.' Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy." (2 Nephi 2:24-25)
In my search for religious truth in my late teens and twenties, I came across many explanations for Eve's actions that fell outside the traditional concepts I had been taught as a child. One of those I clearly recall as being an 'aha' moment for me, when I knew with a surety that what I had been taught - that women must suffer because of Eve's sins and the subsequent fall from grace of all humankind being on eve's head - was not of God. The author - whom I have unfortunately lost over the years - described the fall as not being backward but forward. Imagine that you are climbing a staircase and you stumble. Chances are, you don't fall down the stairs, but up. This brings you closer to your goal, but sometimes sets other obstacles in your way. As the author explained, so it was with Eve - her transgression being a fall forward, closer to God. This is also explained in this article called "A Midrash for Eve" which I just found from the Jewish Midrash Tradition. I had not yet found this church or it's attitude of gratitude towards Eve when I first came across this idea almost twenty years ago, but understanding the deeper scriptural roots of biblical stories such as this one certainly helped me to see that this church contains the whole truth in ways that are sometimes not apparent. Blessings to you, hoping that this helps clarify your concerns, and praying that you will return!
I'm happy to hear that you felt God's spirit when you went to Church. Know that you're always welcome back! The doctrinal question you mentioned is interesting, but it isn't central to Mormonism. One could easily be a practicing Mormon without having a full understanding of the Adam-and-Eve question.
Here's my understanding of Adam and Eve's "sin." Before the creation of the earth, our spirits lived in the presence of God. We loved God our Father and, like all children, wanted to be more like Him. To become more like God, who is all-knowing and corporeal, we need to gain bodies, come to know pain, come to know the temptations associated with a physical body, and learn to overcome those temptations. The road to becoming more like God would be hard and at times unpleasant, but God knew it would be worth it.
God is infinitely merciful, so He wanted to give us the opportunity to become more like Him. However, He is also infinitely just, and so He could not force the human family into an at-times unpleasant mortal world. Humanity had to choose to walk the challenging path of mortality in order to become more like the Father.
God, as always, found a brilliant solution to this mercy-vs-justice dilemma. He showed His mercy by sending humanity to a physical world, where men and women could learn to become more like Him. He showed His justice by requiring humanity to choose for itself whether it would enter a mortal world, rather than unjustly forcing the challenges and pains of mortality upon His children.
As you know, humanity did choose to enter the mortal world, as symbolized by the partaking of the forbidden fruit. We traditionally call that act a "sin" or a "transgression." This is perhaps a misnomer. To "sin" is to intentionally act contrary to God's will. It was in fact God's will that humanity fall so it could gain experience, learn to become more like God, be redeemed through Christ, and return to God's presence. One could argue that because Adam and Eve did God's will, they did not technically "sin." Good luck trying to get 13 million Mormons to change their vocabulary!
First I will point out that in the garden we read Genisis 1: 28 God's first commandment to Adam - "And God blessed (His creations), and God said unto them, be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. "
So then we read the book of Moses (because the Book of Moses is more plain) the second commandment found in Moses 3: 16 "And I, the Lord God, commanded the man, saying: of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat," Then God gives the warning Ibid 3: 17 "But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it, nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given unto thee; but, remember that I forbid it, for in the day thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. "
Then we have God creating Eve after both of those commandments were given by God to Adam (back to) Genisis 2: 21-22 "And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; and the rib, which the Lord God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. "
As we know that woman was called Eve and was given to Adam for "helpmeet" or in other words "equal help" for and to Adam. We then, by logic we believe, Eve was taught by Adam all the first commandments of God.
We don't know by the scriptures all of the interactions in the garden, but we do know that Adam and Eve were joined together by God's sealing power and thus were married.
Time passed and enter the evil one... Lucifer... Who acted as follows (back to Moses 4: 6-13) "And Satan put it into the heart of the serpent, (for he had drawn away many after him,) and he sought also to beguile eve, for he knew not the mind of God, wherefore he sought to destroy the world. And he said unto the woman: yea, hath God saidye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? (and he spake by the mouth of the serpent.) and the woman (remembering the first commandment of God) said unto the serpent: we may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden; (and now recalling the second commantment added) but of the fruit of the tree which thou beholdest in the midst of the garden, God hath saidye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman: ye shall not surely die; for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it became pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make her wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and also gave unto her husband with her, and he did eat."
I feel this is probably the part of scripture that bothers you, but it's perfectly in order with the justice and the plan of God. And to which we read later Adam and Eve's reaction to the whole situation after hearing of Jesus' atonement to be (Moses 5: 10-11) Adam - "Blessed be the name of God, for because of my transgression my eyes are opened, and in this life I shall have joy, and again in the flesh I shall see God." "and Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad, saying: were it not for our transgression we never should have had seed, and never should have known good and evil, and the joy of our redemption, and the eternal life which God giveth unto all the obedient. "
Interesting to point out here that the first commandment to be fruitful and multiply couldn't have been kept except their minds were made aware and they knew how to multiply and replenish.
God gave man and women their agency to choose for themselves. This agency was given before the garden of eden. In fact that was what the whole war in heaven was about. Lucifer wanted to force everyone to be perfect and make it back to heaven, but it that were possible and correct don't ya think God would have done it that way in the first place? But if everything is force upon, or done for us, us we learn nothing but stay innocent and never grow.
I don't know if you're a father, but in having kids you learn that it's in their discovering the path of correctness and happiness they learn it and become wise. Satan's plan of forcing everyone to heaven couldn't have worked because it would have been a group of babies, clothed in flesh, that would have known nothing. Then we would have been no better off then when we started except then we would have had bodies, and no knowledge on how to control the impulses within them.
That's not like being as God that would be like a bunch of drunken frat party kids at a backwoods school that teaches how to obey the school master. Where is the joy in that? It's in acomplishment and helping others that joy is found, not by doing what you are forced to do.... Again ask your kids.
The good news here is that you're re-looking at the gospel and God is always there to welcome prodical's home. I quote president Packer
"There is no sin so great, no trangression so vile, no rebellion so long that is exempt from a full and complete forgivness through the atonement of our lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
His hand is stretched out still brother! Seek him and ye shall find, knock and his door shall be opened unto you!
And thus we'll go forward, one labored step at a time, in faith knowing that Jesus is there waiting with open arms and a smile. And when we get knocked back we use our agency to get up and start forward again, for we know the day is not over, the judment is not yet, and there are no failures in the gospel of Jesus, just quiters.
In his holy name Jesus Christ, amen.
Therefore, Eve did the right thing! When Adam understood, he partook of the fruit. We honor mother Eve and her choice. Please understand that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers this "original sin". It does not pass to you or me or our children. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins and not for Adams transgression.
Jesus was prepared before the foundation of this world, before the garden of Eden was planted, before the earth was made, to perform the atonement. If he was prepared before, Heavenly Father knew that Adam and Eve would eventually partake of the fruit.
The garden of Eden was about our father allowing his children to choose their path, with Jesus already prepared to solve any problems we would encounter through the atonement if we would listen and obey his teachings.
Joseph Fielding Smith, "Adam's Role in Bringing us Mortality," Liahona, Jan 2006, 89 is another interesting read.
In my search for religious truth in my late teens and twenties, I came across many explanations for Eve's actions that fell outside the traditional concepts I had been taught as a child. One of those I clearly recall as being an 'aha' moment for me, when I knew with a surety that what I had been taught - that women must suffer because of Eve's sins and the subsequent fall from grace of all humankind being on eve's head - was not of God. The author - whom I have unfortunately lost over the years - described the fall as not being backward but forward. Imagine that you are climbing a staircase and you stumble. Chances are, you don't fall down the stairs, but up. This brings you closer to your goal, but sometimes sets other obstacles in your way. As the author explained, so it was with Eve - her transgression being a fall forward, closer to God. This is also explained in this article called "A Midrash for Eve" which I just found from the Jewish Midrash Tradition. I had not yet found this church or it's attitude of gratitude towards Eve when I first came across this idea almost twenty years ago, but understanding the deeper scriptural roots of biblical stories such as this one certainly helped me to see that this church contains the whole truth in ways that are sometimes not apparent. Blessings to you, hoping that this helps clarify your concerns, and praying that you will return!