All About Mormons

I thought you might enjoy this recent exchange I had with the webmaster of truthinlovetomormons.

——————–

Dear TruthInLoveToMormons,

Just wanted to drop you a quick note to mention that I appreciate your approach to reaching out to Mormons. It is certainly far less offensive than the approaches of many other groups, which are, in my opinion, bigoted. Your approach, however, stems from a sincere desire to help Mormons, who you believe are lost.

As a practicing Mormon, however, I wanted to let you know that many of the statements made on your site are simply not factually accurate. By misinforming your audience, I think you do little to further your cause. I encourage you to review your site as time allows in order to correct the much misinformation, which I’m sure you publish unintentionally. Neither of us are served well when misinformation is taught as if it were fact.

Sincerely,

Jacob

P.S. You may wish to consult the book “How Wide the Divide?” It’s a fascinating read.

——————–

Dear Jacob,

Thank you for your recent e-mail.  We really appreciate your thoughtful comments.  You are correct – we do want to help people of the LDS faith so that they may realize the same wonderful peace and joy given to Christians through Jesus.

You wrote, “…many of the statements made on your site are simply not factually accurate.”  The research that we have done for our website is very extensive and done with official publications distributed through the LDS church.  Therefore, I am a little confused by your statement.  Could you please give me one or two specific examples as to the misinformation to which you are referring?

I hope that you and your family have a very blessed and happy Thanksgiving Day.

Sincerely,
Sarah

——————–

Hi Sarah,

I of course find the assertion that Mormons are not Christian to be ludicrous. I know precisely of the “wonderful peace and joy given to Christians through Jesus” that you describe because I enjoy that same peace and joy in my own life. I’m fairly certain, however, that we’ll have to agree to disagree on this issue. At least we both stand to benefit by correcting some of the errors on your site. Let’s work towards that end.

I do not wish to offend, as I’m sure you’ve made a good-faith effort to accurately represent Mormon beliefs on your site, but there are too many errors for me to correct. I encourage you to continue to research Mormon doctrine and to update your site accordingly. Just to demonstrate the types of errors to which I’m referring, here are a few examples.

“Mormonism believes its god was once a man and is now an exalted being, a being of flesh and bones. “

While some past Mormons have entertained the idea that God was once a man, this idea is hardly established Mormon doctrine. Recently, Gordon B. Hinckley, president of the Church, has explained the uncertainty associated with this concept. To suggest that the idea that God was once a man is official “doctrine” is not accurate.

“Mormonism professes that Mormons can become an exalted being like their god, and receive their own worlds to rule as gods.”

This statement is at best misleading, as it implies somehow that Mormons believe they will become Gods in their own right. In reality, Mormons believe they will always be subject to God the Father and will always act according to His will. We do believe that we can progress in the next life to become more like God, similar in many ways to the doctrine of theosis taught in Orthodox Christianity. The idea that one can inherit some of God’s glory through the sacrifice of Christ is well established in the Bible. Also, the idea of an individual Mormon receiving a specific “planet” as an inheritance is antiquated. (FYI: You should not consider “The God Makers” to be an accurate description of Mormon doctrine; it was condemned by the Jewish Anti-Defamation League.)

“As gods, Mormons will enjoy the reward of eternally procreating spirit children with which to populate their world (known as eternal increase).”

“Procreating” is probably not the best word, as it implies some sort of eternal pregnancy that is alien to Mormon thought.

“Mormonism outlines a divinely-ordained,  detailed, ‘Plan of Salvation’.  This plan consists of a process of progression, centered on works.  If successfully followed, it  results in attaining godhood.  This plan also defines alternative eternal destinations for those who fail to follow it successfully.”

I know it’s common for Evangelicals to believe that Mormonism is entirely works based, but this is simply not the case. Our doctrine is similar to the doctrine of the Catholic Church; we believe that salvation comes only through Jesus Christ, but that God expects us to make a good-faith effort, however inadequate, to put into practice the things that Jesus taught. In the book “How Wide the Divide,” jointly written by an Evangelical and a Mormon theologian, the two determine that Mormon beliefs re. salvation are not that different than some sects of Evangelical Christianity. Also, the phrase “attaining godhood” is somewhat misleading. When Mormons use the term “godhood” (which they don’t even use that much anymore) it is understood that God will forever be our God; we will never cease to worship and honor Him. Your explanation fails to explain this important nuance. 

Your site also over-emphasizes the LDS use of the Joseph Smith “Translation” of the Bible. In fact, the Joseph Smith translation is not canonized and is not generally used. The word “translation,” by the way, is confusing, as the text is more of an incomplete, divinely inspired commentary.

Your site also implies that Mormons only use the King James version of the Bible, and that all other versions are judged inferior. English-speaking Mormons generally do use the King James version in order to maintain some consistency during Sunday School class, but other versions of the Bible are not necessarily inferior. Millions of Mormons don’t even speak English; these Mormons, of course, use other versions of the Bible altogether.

Your site suggests that the following books are authoritative sources of doctrine, to the point of being equal to scripture: Gospel Principles, The Life and Teachings of Jesus and His Apostles (I’ve never even heard of this book!), Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Ensign, and the Teachings of the Presidents of the Church. These are student manuals designed to teach doctrine contained in the Scriptures. They are not de novo sources of doctrine in and of themselves, as you suggest. Even I’ve written something that was accepted for publication in a Church magazine; I would hardly consider what I wrote to be “doctrine.” The book Gospel Principles isn’t even used as a teaching manual in most Mormon Sunday School classes. It’s considered an introductory manual used to teach recent converts or those investigating the Church. I should know; I was a “Gospel Principles” teacher up until a few months ago.

The idea that “Mormons believe they can discern personal truths through their feelings” is also not exactly correct. Personal revelation comes through both the mind and the heart, not the feelings alone. This is well established in scriptures like Doctrine and Covenants 6:15 and Doctrine and Covenants 9:8-9. Revelation usually only comes secondary to intense studying, pondering, and preparation, not as a spurious feeling.

You also imply that Mormons do not trust the Bible, as they believe it contains many “errors, deletions, additions, and intentional misrepresentations.” In fact, Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God and use it regularly in their teaching. In harmony with most Biblical scholars, many of whom I’m sure you would recognize as Christians, Mormons believe there are some errors in complication and transmission, but not enough errors to render the Bible useless. Quite to the contrary, the Bible is one of the most precious gifts we’ve received from God. The Mormon view of the Bible was recently explained well in one of our General Conferences. See http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=e4a1b5658af22110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&hideNav=1 (Sorry for the long URL…the long URLs at lds.org are perhaps the most convincing evidence that the Church is not divinely inspired. God would not create a monstrous URL like that…)

I hope this gives you a flavor for some of the errors present in your site. Fortunately, Mormon doctrine is well documented on the Internet. I encourage you to visit http://www.lds.org and to look at recent commentaries on LDS doctrine (perhaps by reading recent General-Conference addresses, for example).

Sincerely,

Jacob

——————–

Update:

Dear Jacob,

Thank you for your e-mail and for such specific statements. I would like to respond to a few of your comments, if I may.

You suggested that using official LDS literature like Gospel Principles are not “de novo sources of doctrine.” If you are the Gospel Principles teacher, you should be aware that official LDS publications and Conference Talks accurately teach LDS doctrine and hold the same authority as LDS scripture. In Gospel Principles, page 55, it states under Words of Our Living Prophets, “In addition to these four books of scripture, the inspired words of our living prophets become scripture to us. Their words come to us through conferences, Church publications, and instructions to local priesthood leaders. We believe all that God has revealed, all that he does now reveal, and we believe that he will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God (Articles of Faith 1:9).” You also directed me to the book “How Wide the Divide” as a source to find true LDS doctrine. This book was written by a man who has never been a Mormon Apostle or Prophet. How can it hold more weight than one written by your Prophets?

You stated that the LDS faith is NOT entirely works based. Again, look at Gospel Principles where pages 303 and 304 state otherwise. The section is even titled Requirements for Exaltation! How is that NOT works based? There are two lists totaling 21 things that I must do in order to be exalted. Where in the Bible does it list requirements in order for me to be exalted? Even with these requirements, the LDS church states that Heavenly Father expects us to make a “good-faith effort.” Where in the Bible does is say that all that is needed is a “good-faith effort?”

You wrote that “Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God and use it regularly…” Here is a quote from Elder M. Russell Ballard that you referenced in your e-mail, “I am puzzled by any who would question this Church’s belief in the Bible and our position as Christians. The name of the Church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. In our last general conference, here in this building, our Church leaders quoted from the Bible nearly 200 times.” When reading other General Conference Talks, this is what I found from Gordon Hinckley in the May 2005 General Conference, “I speak next of another very important thing which God revealed. The Christian world accepts the Bible as the word of God. Most have no idea of how it came to us. I have just completed reading a newly published book by a renowned scholar. It is apparent from information which he gives that the various books of the Bible were brought together in what appears to have been an unsystematic fashion. In some cases, the writings were not produced until long after the events they describe. One is led to ask, ‘Is the Bible true? Is it really the word of God?’ So you tell me…..who is correct? Russell Ballard or Gordon Hinckley?

I would be very interested in your response to what I have written. Also, if you would like me to address the other points in your e-mail, I would be happy to do so. Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,

*****

——————–

Dear *****,

I can’t help but feel our discussion has taken on a somewhat antagonistic tone. If your goal is really to witness to me in “truth and love,” you may wish to modify your approach, especially given the fact that I initially emailed you in the spirit of mutual respect. Whenever a person tells another group of people what they believe, instead of listening to it from their own mouths, they are walking on thin ice. You clearly have a certain view of Mormonism, and you appear to be unwilling to consider it from a different angle. You perform the traditional quote-mining and find evidence that, when taken out of context, seems to support your view. But your view is not entirely accurate, and I encourage you to have an open mind.

The idea that every official publication of the Church is “scripture” is simply not accurate. The Church has a large curriculum department that does its best to describe Mormon doctrine accurately and to publish it through books like Gospel Principles and the Church magazines. Because they make such a good effort to describe Mormon doctrine, we can learn a lot from those manuals and magazines. But occasionally mistakes are made, and these deparment-generated official publications do not constitute scripture. I again emphasize that I myself have had things accepted for publication in official Church publications. In the things I wrote, I tried my best to describe Mormon doctrines, and I think I did a pretty good job, but to imply that my article is “scripture” is ludicrous. The idea that the words of the prophets, when they speak in their capacity as prophets, are a kind of scripture (i.e. message from God) is defensible, especially if one takes into consideration not one isolated talk but the consensus being taught by the First Presidency and the Quorom of the Tweleve together, but to then extrapolate and say that any official Church publication is scripture is silly.

You’re argument re. “How Wide the Divide” is a strawman, and I suspect you know it. I nowhere implied that that book is scripture. I pointed out that book only as an interesting read that discusses many of the same issues we’ve discussed. It was co-written by an Evangelical theologian who comes to very different conclusions about Mormonism than those expressed on your site. If you don’t want to read the book, just say so.

Regarding your question re. the role of works in salvation, you ask where in the Bible that doctrine is taught. It is taught in many places, which is precisely why the majority of Christians worldwide believe it. Matthew 7:21 would be a good example, where the Savior says, “Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.” To see a number of other scriptures, feel free to visit https://www.allaboutmormons.com/ScriptStudy.

Even the “evidence” from Gospel Principles you offered does not support the assertion that the LDS Faith is “entirely” based on works. As I stated previously, we believe we are saved through Jesus Christ, but that God wishes us to make a “good-faith effort” to choose the right. I think we can both agree that Mormons consider the Book of Mormon to be scripture. In that text we read, “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Modern prophets have said the same thing. I’d be happy to provide quotes, if you care to hear them.

My statement, “Mormons believe the Bible to be the word of God and use it regularly…” is absolutely correct. In fact, one recent study found that Mormon teenagers are “the most Bible-believing” of all groups surveyed, including, apparently, even Evangelical teens. An analysis of the scriptures that have been cited in General Conference reveals that the New Testament is cited 2.5 times more frequently than the Book of Mormon. Even the Old Testament is cited more than the Book of Mormon. (Not to imply that the Book of Mormon isn’t important in Mormonism; of course it is, but clearly the Bible is equally important and respected.)

You act as if the two statements you cite, by Elder Ballard and by President Hinckley, are somehow mutually exclusive. Even a superficial reading will show that they are not. Mormons believe that the text of the Bible was written by prophets of God and that it was true as originally written. Because of errors in translation, transmission, and compliation (which President Hinckley alludes to), we do not believe that the Bible is infallible. (We’d say the same thing about the Book of Mormon, by the way…) But the fact that some errors (or, probably more commonly, omissions) are present does not invalidate the Bible as scripture. Mormons use the Bible extensively and consider it to be basically accurate, a reliable way to learn about God. Incidentally, the majority of Christians on the planet also do not believe the Bible is infallible.

I would be interested in your responses to my other comments, if your schedule permits.

Thanks for your time,

Jacob

——————–

Dear *****,

I neglected to address one of your points. You quote from President Hinckley, and you terminate his quote with his question, “Is the Bible true? Is it really the word of God?” The implication here is that President Hinckley does not believe the Bible is true. If you’ll look at the actual text of his talk, however, you’ll see that the very next sentences begins with, “We reply that it is…” This is precisely the sort of selective quote-mining and taking things out of context to which I referred in my previous email.

~Jacob