I have a question regarding Joseph Smith. It appears that he has gone on record as stating he is better then Christ. Since I’M thinking of converting I ‘ve been giving so much information from those who oppose the LDS church. Most of it I shrug off, but things like this make me wonder. I believe that this is the reason it is said that the LD S church worships Joseph Smith. I have more to boast of than any man had. I am the only man that has ever been able to keep a whole church together since the days of Adam. A large majority of the whole have stood by me. Neither Paul, John, Peter, nor Jesus ever did it. I boast that no man ever did such work as I (History of the Church, Vol. 6, pp. 408-09)
7 Responses to “I have a question regarding Joseph Smith. It appears that he…”
Luciano Delgado
2011-07-25 00:34:54
The North Visitors' Center on Temple Square has an 11-foot replica of Thorvaldsen's Christus on display.
Hi Fernando. Thanks for your question. There is no doubt that Joseph Smith knew Christ was greater than he. Among the many quotes that could be cited, a Revelation Joseph received while imprisoned (D&C 122:8) is particularly illustrative. After listing the many challenges Joseph had faced, God said the following: "The Son of Man [Jesus Christ] hath descended below them all. Art thou greater than he?" The answer to this rhetorical question is obviously no. Given that Joseph indicated on multiple occasions that Christ was greater than he, one ought to be immediately suspicious of the quote you provided. Anti-Mormons must be misquoting it or taking it out of context.
Even before noting the context of the quote, however, it's worth pointing out that it does not state that Joseph was greater than Christ. Joseph said only that previous dispensations had ended in apostasy. Only the modern dispensation has not departed from the truth in all its particulars. I'm certain you're familiar with the Mormon concept of the great apostasy, so this statement should not come as a surprise. Of course, previous apostasies resulted from The Acts of men, not The Acts of God/Christ. The one curiosity remaining, then, is why Joseph used the word "boast."
The context, which anti-Mormons conveniently omit, explains why Joseph used so strong a word. He had been preaching from 2 Corinthians in which Paul describes his own spiritual boasting: "Again I say, let no one think me foolish; but if you do, receive me even as foolish, that I also may boast a little. That which I am speaking, I am not speaking it as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. Since many boast according to the flesh, I will boast also. For you, being so wise, bear the foolish gladly." (2 Corinthians 11:16-19). In other words, Joseph only used the word "boast" because he was trying to draw parallels between his own experience and Paul's.
The situation is complicated further by the fact that Joseph died a month after this statement was purportedly made. He did not have a chance to supervise the entry; in fact, the last entries in the History of the Church were made by others after Joseph's death and are not always entirely accurate in their details.
You might find this webpage helpful if you'd like additional information. Best of luck.
Art Sherwood
2011-07-18 20:51:04
There is a detailed article on fairlds.org that addresses this well known anti-mormon criticism.
There a two big problems with this criticism. First, the quote comes second hand through a synopsis of Joseph's speech by Thomas Bullock so there could easily be errors in the quote itself.
Even if the quote is accurate, however, there is another important detail. He apparently made it after quoting 2 Corinthians 11. In this chapter, the Corinthians had been turning to sources other than Paul and the apostles for words of salvation. Paul uses ridiculous "boasts" as a literary tool to contrast himself with these other sources and illustrate their folly in listening to these other sources. He uses the boasts to show how foolish the boasts are.
Likewise, after Joseph Smith read 2 Corinthians11 in his speech, he too went on a similar tirade, just as Paul did, for the same purpose. To show how foolish it is.
Of course, critics of the Church don't bother putting this quote in its context.
In truth, those who know the prophet testify that he was a profoundly humble man and if you read his writings you will see that this is the case.
Pamela Dean Bonta
2011-07-25 00:39:05
Hello, Fernando,
Yes, Joseph did appparently say those words, assuming they were recorded correctly by Thomas Bullock who was a clerk aboard the steamer 'Maid of Iowa'. But they are out of context. Joseph had just come from a three day conference where mobs, led by leading men in the county, had persistently disrupted the proceedings. When he gave his address or sermon the following Sunday, he was really addressing those dissenters who were causing such problems by allowing the Saints to worship Heavenly Father. His talk began with the reading of 2 Cor. Ch. 11, in which Paul says, "Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?" and then continues with examplesof the trials he has endured. Joseph's comments were related directly to this. Thus, he did not say that he was better than Christ - what he says is that Christ's followers denied him and corrupted the gospel, leading to the Great Apostasy, but that despite the persecutions he and the Saints had endured, there were still many who believed the true church had been restored by a modern-day prophet through the will of God. Following the quote you mention, he said, "The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.... I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. " He then goes on for three pages outlining all the wrongs committed against him in recent days, stating that despite this, "I have nothing in my heart but good feelings." Joseph was not claiming that he was better than Christ - he was stating that despite the enemies that surrounded him, he knew that the Saints possessed some of the strongest testimonies there ever was of Jesus, and was assuring them that he loved them. He said, "As I grow older, my heart grows tenderer for you.... I have set your minds at liberty by letting you know the things of Christ Jesus.... I love you for your reception of me."
M. Welch
2011-07-19 04:34:57
This may not be a very satisfying answer, but here's a link to someone answering the same question (who can probably put the answer much better than I could do):
I hope that helps. Keep in mind that it's always hard to understand what someone meant when it is taken out of context.
Shalon
2011-07-20 08:25:05
That's a gross misquote. Joseph is important to us. Which is only to say, that because he prayed, had a series of visions, and Believed them... Joseph Smith was the instrument that restored the true Church of Jesus Christ to the world. But never once did Joseph Smith claim to be anything other than a messenger, a prophet, seer, and revelator chosen by God and Jesus to share the good news.
Anonymous
2011-07-22 21:36:30
I don't know about that quote at the end (I'm not a huge expert on the Mormon church) but I can't imagine it to be true. Whenever I speak to Mormons I get the distinct impression that they respect and admire Joseph Smith but never worship him. His in endeared to them but not any more so than their current prophet or other prophets succeeding his death. I have heard the church's current stance of Joseph Smith. I know that the church does not feel that way. Otherwise they would probably put Joseph's name as opposed to Jesus' as the title of their church. Hope I helped :)
Fernando Alarcon
2011-08-29 06:09:13
Thank you for the quick reply to both of my posts, it was great to get some insight. God bless.
Even before noting the context of the quote, however, it's worth pointing out that it does not state that Joseph was greater than Christ. Joseph said only that previous dispensations had ended in apostasy. Only the modern dispensation has not departed from the truth in all its particulars. I'm certain you're familiar with the Mormon concept of the great apostasy, so this statement should not come as a surprise. Of course, previous apostasies resulted from The Acts of men, not The Acts of God/Christ. The one curiosity remaining, then, is why Joseph used the word "boast."
The context, which anti-Mormons conveniently omit, explains why Joseph used so strong a word. He had been preaching from 2 Corinthians in which Paul describes his own spiritual boasting: "Again I say, let no one think me foolish; but if you do, receive me even as foolish, that I also may boast a little. That which I am speaking, I am not speaking it as the Lord would, but as in foolishness, in this confidence of boasting. Since many boast according to the flesh, I will boast also. For you, being so wise, bear the foolish gladly." (2 Corinthians 11:16-19). In other words, Joseph only used the word "boast" because he was trying to draw parallels between his own experience and Paul's.
The situation is complicated further by the fact that Joseph died a month after this statement was purportedly made. He did not have a chance to supervise the entry; in fact, the last entries in the History of the Church were made by others after Joseph's death and are not always entirely accurate in their details.
You might find this webpage helpful if you'd like additional information. Best of luck.
http://en.fairmormon.org/Joseph_Smith/Narcissism/Did_Joseph_Smith_%27boast%27_of_keeping_the_Church_intact
There a two big problems with this criticism. First, the quote comes second hand through a synopsis of Joseph's speech by Thomas Bullock so there could easily be errors in the quote itself.
Even if the quote is accurate, however, there is another important detail. He apparently made it after quoting 2 Corinthians 11. In this chapter, the Corinthians had been turning to sources other than Paul and the apostles for words of salvation. Paul uses ridiculous "boasts" as a literary tool to contrast himself with these other sources and illustrate their folly in listening to these other sources. He uses the boasts to show how foolish the boasts are.
Likewise, after Joseph Smith read 2 Corinthians11 in his speech, he too went on a similar tirade, just as Paul did, for the same purpose. To show how foolish it is.
Of course, critics of the Church don't bother putting this quote in its context.
In truth, those who know the prophet testify that he was a profoundly humble man and if you read his writings you will see that this is the case.
Yes, Joseph did appparently say those words, assuming they were recorded correctly by Thomas Bullock who was a clerk aboard the steamer 'Maid of Iowa'. But they are out of context. Joseph had just come from a three day conference where mobs, led by leading men in the county, had persistently disrupted the proceedings. When he gave his address or sermon the following Sunday, he was really addressing those dissenters who were causing such problems by allowing the Saints to worship Heavenly Father. His talk began with the reading of 2 Cor. Ch. 11, in which Paul says, "Have I committed an offence in abasing myself that ye might be exalted, because I have preached to you the gospel of God freely?" and then continues with examplesof the trials he has endured. Joseph's comments were related directly to this. Thus, he did not say that he was better than Christ - what he says is that Christ's followers denied him and corrupted the gospel, leading to the Great Apostasy, but that despite the persecutions he and the Saints had endured, there were still many who believed the true church had been restored by a modern-day prophet through the will of God. Following the quote you mention, he said, "The followers of Jesus ran away from Him; but the Latter-day Saints never ran away from me yet.... I am in the bosom of a virtuous and good people. " He then goes on for three pages outlining all the wrongs committed against him in recent days, stating that despite this, "I have nothing in my heart but good feelings." Joseph was not claiming that he was better than Christ - he was stating that despite the enemies that surrounded him, he knew that the Saints possessed some of the strongest testimonies there ever was of Jesus, and was assuring them that he loved them. He said, "As I grow older, my heart grows tenderer for you.... I have set your minds at liberty by letting you know the things of Christ Jesus.... I love you for your reception of me."
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/answers/greater.htm
I hope that helps. Keep in mind that it's always hard to understand what someone meant when it is taken out of context.