I have a few questions regarding the Apostasy. I’m want to convert, but as I read the Bible and the Book of Mormon I get more confused. I have come to these conclusions, I hope you can answer my questions as I’m not sure about my Christian faith, or the LDS. I write this in love and hope to gain an understanding, so I hope my questions do not offend.
There could not be a complete apostasy as long as faithful witnesses remained on earth. As the explanatory notes verify, 3 Nephi 28: 7-8, 25 states that, “The Three Nephites desire and are given power over death so as to remain on the earth until Jesus comes again.”
Doctines & Covenants 7: 1-8 also states that John the Apostle never died but remained on earth as a faithful witness.
A complete apostasy of the Christian Church would prove Jesus to be a liar and a false prophet
Jesus: “And I say unto thee, Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” Matthew 16: 18
Historical records verify that from the time of Christ’s first appearing there have always been individuals and groups that remained true to the original gospel. So with that I’m a bit confused.
The apostasy refers to the absence of the kingdom (i.e, Church) of Jesus Christ on the earth. This is not to say that there may not be some who hold the priesthood, but they have no authority or authorization to establish the Church or perform its ordinances.
Presidents J. Reuben Clark, Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee went so far as to teach that the presence of such priesthood holders during periods of apostasy were, in their opinion, a necessity:
President [J. Reuben] Clark said something that startled some folks years ago. He said, "It is my faith that the gospel plan has always been here, that his priesthood has always been here on the earth, and that it will continue to be so until the end comes" (in Conference Report, October 1953, p. 39). When that conference session was over there were many who said, "My goodness, doesn't President Clark realize that there have been periods of apostasy following each dispensation of the gospel?"
I walked over to the Church Office Building with President Joseph Fielding Smith and he said, "I believe there has never been a moment of time since the creation that God has abandoned the earth to Satan. There has always been someone holding the priesthood on the earth to hold Satan in check." And then I thought of Enoch's city with perhaps thousands who were taken into heaven and were translated. They must have been translated for a purpose and may have sojourned with those living on the earth ever since that time. I have thought of Elijah—and perhaps Moses; for all we know they were translated beings, as was John the Revelator. I have thought of the Three Nephites. Why were they translated and permitted to tarry? For what purpose? An answer was suggested when I heard President Smith make the above statement. Now, that doesn't mean that the kingdom of God has always been present, because these men did not have the authority to administer the saving ordinances of the gospel to the world. But these individuals were translated for a purpose known to the Lord. There is no question but what they were here.
Critics fail to distinguish between someone holding the priesthood, and someone being authorized to exercise the priesthood in forming the Church, conferring blessings, ordinantions, and spiritual gifts.
The apostasy refers to a lack of the latter, not the former.
T.b.
2011-06-27 02:46:09
Fernando, I would like to know the scripture reference that you read there will not be a complete apostasy as long as faithful witnesses remain on the earth so that I can see how it being interpreted.That would help to clarify this if you could let me know.
In Acts Ch 3- Peter speaks about the restoration of all things before the Lords second coming.-To have a restoration there must be a falling away in order to have to be restored. 2Thess ch 2 vrs 3 Paul specifically warns of a falling away before the Lord returns. These words tell us that it must happen, they are prophecy and it did happen. There are other scriptures that support this but the words of Peter and Paul are good enough. So, the following away and restoration must happen.
The Lords words to Peter are that Peter would hold the keys to the kingdom of God after the Lord ascention into heaven - never was this given to anyone else. The other apostles were specially holy witnesses but all of the keys of the kingdom were only given to Peter, because only one person can hold them on the earth at one time. Peter did not and could not give the keys to anyone else, so that the prophecy could be fulfilled and there would be a falling away. As for three Nephites and John, they are again specially holy witnesses to Christ but will not hold the keys to the kingdom.Their calling to holy work is most precious to the Lord, It must be this way and that is their calling - but they keys were with Peter.
There were also the teachers that were called to teach what they had know, however the role of a teacher does not hold the keys to the kingdom it is to proclaim the gospel truths. The teachers never had the keys to the kingdom just like the other apostles. It has to be this way it is a holy order.
There were also faithful Christians throughout all times, again they could live faithfully to what they knew but as time went on with out an authorized holder of the keys to the kingdom - or even after the apostles were killed there were now not even any holy witnesses- the world was left to it's own understanding and not devine leadership.
The Lord would never lie and these things all came about as well as now have been restored and there is a Prophet- holder to all of the keys to the kingdom of God and Apostles- holy special witnesses on the earth again.
I'm not sure where the information that there would not be a falling away as long as there are faithful people on the earth is from. But I would be happy to talk about it if you can give me the scripture reference. If there is anything I can do to clearify anymore I will.
Pamela Dean Bonta
2011-07-11 10:48:16
Latter-day Saints refer to a Great Apostasy, not a *complete* apostasy. The word 'apostasy' is commonly believed to refer to the level of belief or faith of the people. In some regards, this is true. But the word also has a deeper meaning, wherein it refers to the *consequences* of corrupting of the teachings of Jesus, namely, the removal of the keys of the priesthood from the earth. This meant that although many people believed in Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ, there was not a fulness of truth. Many good people have lived good lives by following one faith or another over the 1800 years between Christ's death and the restoration of the church, but they were not blessed by having the authority of the priesthood. Since Joseph Smith's day, that divine authority has been reestablished on the earth, never to be removed again by God. What a wonderful blessing that we are living in a time when the fulness of Christ's teachings is available to us again.
Hope this helps!
The apostasy refers to the absence of the kingdom (i.e, Church) of Jesus Christ on the earth. This is not to say that there may not be some who hold the priesthood, but they have no authority or authorization to establish the Church or perform its ordinances.
Presidents J. Reuben Clark, Joseph Fielding Smith, Harold B. Lee went so far as to teach that the presence of such priesthood holders during periods of apostasy were, in their opinion, a necessity:
President [J. Reuben] Clark said something that startled some folks years ago. He said, "It is my faith that the gospel plan has always been here, that his priesthood has always been here on the earth, and that it will continue to be so until the end comes" (in Conference Report, October 1953, p. 39). When that conference session was over there were many who said, "My goodness, doesn't President Clark realize that there have been periods of apostasy following each dispensation of the gospel?"
I walked over to the Church Office Building with President Joseph Fielding Smith and he said, "I believe there has never been a moment of time since the creation that God has abandoned the earth to Satan. There has always been someone holding the priesthood on the earth to hold Satan in check." And then I thought of Enoch's city with perhaps thousands who were taken into heaven and were translated. They must have been translated for a purpose and may have sojourned with those living on the earth ever since that time. I have thought of Elijah—and perhaps Moses; for all we know they were translated beings, as was John the Revelator. I have thought of the Three Nephites. Why were they translated and permitted to tarry? For what purpose? An answer was suggested when I heard President Smith make the above statement. Now, that doesn't mean that the kingdom of God has always been present, because these men did not have the authority to administer the saving ordinances of the gospel to the world. But these individuals were translated for a purpose known to the Lord. There is no question but what they were here.
Critics fail to distinguish between someone holding the priesthood, and someone being authorized to exercise the priesthood in forming the Church, conferring blessings, ordinantions, and spiritual gifts.
The apostasy refers to a lack of the latter, not the former.
In Acts Ch 3- Peter speaks about the restoration of all things before the Lords second coming.-To have a restoration there must be a falling away in order to have to be restored. 2Thess ch 2 vrs 3 Paul specifically warns of a falling away before the Lord returns. These words tell us that it must happen, they are prophecy and it did happen. There are other scriptures that support this but the words of Peter and Paul are good enough. So, the following away and restoration must happen.
The Lords words to Peter are that Peter would hold the keys to the kingdom of God after the Lord ascention into heaven - never was this given to anyone else. The other apostles were specially holy witnesses but all of the keys of the kingdom were only given to Peter, because only one person can hold them on the earth at one time. Peter did not and could not give the keys to anyone else, so that the prophecy could be fulfilled and there would be a falling away. As for three Nephites and John, they are again specially holy witnesses to Christ but will not hold the keys to the kingdom.Their calling to holy work is most precious to the Lord, It must be this way and that is their calling - but they keys were with Peter.
There were also the teachers that were called to teach what they had know, however the role of a teacher does not hold the keys to the kingdom it is to proclaim the gospel truths. The teachers never had the keys to the kingdom just like the other apostles. It has to be this way it is a holy order.
There were also faithful Christians throughout all times, again they could live faithfully to what they knew but as time went on with out an authorized holder of the keys to the kingdom - or even after the apostles were killed there were now not even any holy witnesses- the world was left to it's own understanding and not devine leadership.
The Lord would never lie and these things all came about as well as now have been restored and there is a Prophet- holder to all of the keys to the kingdom of God and Apostles- holy special witnesses on the earth again.
I'm not sure where the information that there would not be a falling away as long as there are faithful people on the earth is from. But I would be happy to talk about it if you can give me the scripture reference. If there is anything I can do to clearify anymore I will.