First, I do participate in tithing and think that it is essential to Gods work. However, I do not tithe all 10% to my church, but rather like to give portions to other ministries and needy people. What is the LDS stance on this and still holding a temple recommend?
Second, I have been diagnosed with a low level of hyperglycemia, so basically I have to eat every three hours or so (except at night when I am asleep). Consequently, I do not fast or else I would probably pass out. Is this acceptable in the LDS church?
Third, I am having trouble with some aspects of the prophets revelations, such as the Book of Abraham. It just does not seem that it is possible for papyrus from that time to be extant, much less written in his own hand as suggested. Can you clarify?
6 Responses to “First, I do participate in tithing and think that it is esse…”
Pamela Dean Bonta
2010-12-05 14:14:51
Dear Mike,
Tithing: tithing means donating 10% of your income to the church. What you do with the rest of your money is really up to you, but we are asked in the temple recommend interview if we support or are affiliated with anything that is against the doctrines of the church. I tithe, but I also donate 1% of my income to whatever school I happen to be teaching in, either directly or through fundraisers or through the purchase of classroom materials. And when I take my grandmother to her Anglican Church, I always put a few dollars in the collection plate as Anglican ministers are paid clergy and if I am partaking of their services then I feel I should support their work on the days I am there. I also donate when they have memorial hymn sings and flower services, in memory of my deceased loved ones who were Anglican. There are also several other charities that I contribute to, but it is over and above what I pay in tithing.
One thing that I do make sure to do is really examine the purpose of the organization that I donate to. For example, I do not support any religious organization that defames my own Mormon faith. I support food banks in areas where there is no LDS church or bishop's storehouse, but even then I closely examine who is running the food bank. In one place I lived I did not support one food bank because the organization also supported abortion on demand. I do not donate to the united way, as I have no way of determining where my funds are being channelled, preferring instead to donate to specific charities individually.
Fasting and health issues: I, too, have health issues that make a total fast difficult. The bishop and stake president that I counselled with made it very clear that we are not to fast if it endangers our health. Instead, they suggested a partial fast, which can be done in several ways. One way is to only partake of the neccessities that will keep, in your situation, your blood sugars normal: no junk food, no condiments, the smallest amount to stay regulated, etc. A second way is to fully fast from all fruit, for example. A third way is to fast for as long as possible, and only eating when absolutely necessary. In my situation, through trial and error, I found that I could eventually abstain from eating as long as I had access to milk, which for me, regulated my blood sugars. In these sorts of situations, the *intent* of the fast will be considered by the Lord, as long as we are doing all we can to keep the spirit of fasting. I would urge you to consult with your bishop about this.
Book of Abraham: according to wikipedia, there are many collections of surviving papyrii:
*Amherst papyri this is a collection of Lord Amherst of Hackey. It includes biblical manuscripts, early church fragments, and classical documents from the Ptolemaic, Roman, and Byzantine eras. The collection was edited by Bernard Grenfell and Arthur Hunt in 19001901. It is housed at the Pierpont Morgan Library (New York).
*Bodmer Papyri this collection was purchased by Martin Bodmer in 19551956. Currently it is housed in the Bibliotheca Bodmeriana in Cologny. It includes Greek and Coptic documents, classical texts, biblical books, and writing of the early churches.
*Chester Beatty Papyri collection of 11 codices acquired by Alfred Chester Beatty in 19301931 and 1935. It is housed at the Chester Beatty Library. The collection was edited by Frederic G. Kenyon.
*Colt Papyri it is housed at the Pierpont Morgan Library (New York).
*Egerton Papyrus 2 it is housed at the British Museum
*Martin Schøyen Collection biblical manuscripts in Greek and Coptic, Dead Sea Scrolls, classical documents
*Michigan Papyrus Collection this collection contains above 10 000 papyri fragments. It is housed at the University of Michigan.
*Oxyrhynchus Papyri these numerous papyri fragments were discovered by Grenfell and Hunt in and around Oxyrhynchus. The publication of these papyri is still in progress.
*Princeton Papyri it is housed at the Princeton University
*Rrylands Papyri this collection contains above 700 papyri, with 31 ostraca and 54 codices. It is housed at the John Rylands University Library
*Washington University Papyri Collection includes 445 manuscript fragments, dating from the first century bc to the eighth century AD. Housed at Washington University Libraries.
*Yale Papyrus Collection Numbers over six thousand inventoried items and is cataloged, digitally scanned, and accessible online for close study. It is housed at the Beinecke Library.
This site contains an excellent and scholarly look at recent developments in the understanding of how hieroglyphics are read, and how Joseph's translations are actually in accord with currently accepted translations of the texts. In my humble opinion, Joseph was even more inspired than he is given credit for. At the time, hieroglyphs weren't able to be read by hardly anyone, as they had just been started to be able to be read in 1822. Joseph made these translations around 1835, and was subsequently called a fraud ever since then. Now, egyptologists are just discovering that heiroglyphs can have many different meanings as they often portray a feeling or a sense of what is meant instead of a literal translation, and many of them can be read the same way or very similarly to how Joseph translated them.
J. Golden kimball once had a conversation with a member who told him that he didn't tithe to the church, but gave the same amount of money to charities, widows, etc. "Well, " said Golden, "It appears you're having a (swell) time with the Lord's money!"
I have diabetes, and there are times I cannot safely fast. My wise bishop counseled me on an individual plan I could do, and I highly recommend you seek individual advice from your bishop. One size does not fit all.
As to the Book of Abraham, you don't have to trust the (excellent) research of Hugh Nibley or other experts - or even myself. Fast & pray to your Heavenly Father for your answer, if it's really that important to your salvation and testimony.
Our best wishes & prayers for you!
Manuel Leal
2010-12-06 01:31:47
Tithing is a way to show God that He is first in our hearts.
Hi Mike. I'm happy you took the time to ask your questions here. Let me first describe the Mormon concept of tithing. Mormons actually make two kinds of church-related financial donations, called "tithing" and "fast offerings." The purpose of tithing is principally to build up the Church, not to provide for the needy. "Building up the church," i.e. helping to spread the message of Christ's restored gospel through missionary work, temple building, etc., is the Church's principal humanitarian endeavor. From the Mormon perspective, tithing money belongs to the Lord, and so it would not be appropriate for someone to use those funds for any other purpose. It's not right to be generous with other people's (i.e., the Lord's) money.
Fast offerings, however, are seen in a different light. Once a month, as you probably know, many Mormons fast for spiritual reasons. In principle, they donate the money they would have spent on food to help the needy. In practice, however, Mormons often donate much more than the cost of the missed meals if they are financially able. If your financial situation does not allow you to donate as much to fast offerings as would otherwise be possible because you have donated to another charity, that's perfectly alright. Members are encouraged to use their own discretion when determining how much to pay for fast offerings.
If you have hypoglycemia or some other medical condition that complicates fasting, you should not fast. You can still participate in your congregation's fast, however, by bearing your testimony on fast Sundays if you like, paying fast offerings, and praying for the spiritual blessings that would have come had you been able to fast. I'm certain God understands your unique circumstances.
Regarding the Book of Abraham, my understanding is that most Mormon scholars believe that the papyrus text that Joseph obtained was a copy of Abraham's words, not the original. There are even those who would argue that the papyrus served only as a divinely supplied "prop" to give Joseph, who was not a translator in the academic sense of the word, some needed confidence. These would argue that the Book of Abraham was actually received solely by revelation, as was the Book of Moses. It's impossible to tell, since, contrary to the claims of some, the evidence suggests that the original text Joseph used was lost in the great Chicago fire of 1871.
Regardless of the details, it's the text of the Book of Abraham, which is available for all to read, that is the best evidence of its own truthfulness. The Book of Abraham is one of the most interesting books in the Mormon canon.
Mike
2010-12-06 20:37:17
Thank you all for your answers, they make a lot of sense. I had never really considered the difference between a tithe and other gifts. I guess that is what the Bible means by "tithes and offerings" with tithes given directly back to the Lord and offerings given in other ways.
Clarissa
2010-12-10 19:30:21
In regard to your second question, it is alrigh that you don't fast. Some people are unable to fast due to health and the Lord would never ask that they endanger their safety and well-being in any way. All he asks is that we do what we can. This won't be held against you. Just do what you can.
Manuel Leal
2011-01-09 01:43:05
Hi Mike. Very interesting insight about "tithes and offerings" in the Bible being related to the distinction between modern tithing and fast offerings. For what it's worth, I looked up the Hebrew words corresponding to "tithes" and "offerings" in Malachi 3:8, and the original Hebrew seems to support your insight. Tithe, "ma`aser," means "tenth part," and offering, "teruwmah," means "contribution, offering."
One thing that I do make sure to do is really examine the purpose of the organization that I donate to. For example, I do not support any religious organization that defames my own Mormon faith. I support food banks in areas where there is no LDS church or bishop's storehouse, but even then I closely examine who is running the food bank. In one place I lived I did not support one food bank because the organization also supported abortion on demand. I do not donate to the united way, as I have no way of determining where my funds are being channelled, preferring instead to donate to specific charities individually.
*Amherst papyri this is a collection of Lord Amherst of Hackey. It includes biblical manuscripts, early church fragments, and classical documents from the Ptolemaic, Roman, and Byzantine eras. The collection was edited by Bernard Grenfell and Arthur Hunt in 19001901. It is housed at the Pierpont Morgan Library (New York).
*Bodmer Papyri this collection was purchased by Martin Bodmer in 19551956. Currently it is housed in the Bibliotheca Bodmeriana in Cologny. It includes Greek and Coptic documents, classical texts, biblical books, and writing of the early churches.
*Chester Beatty Papyri collection of 11 codices acquired by Alfred Chester Beatty in 19301931 and 1935. It is housed at the Chester Beatty Library. The collection was edited by Frederic G. Kenyon.
*Colt Papyri it is housed at the Pierpont Morgan Library (New York).
*Egerton Papyrus 2 it is housed at the British Museum
*Martin Schøyen Collection biblical manuscripts in Greek and Coptic, Dead Sea Scrolls, classical documents
*Michigan Papyrus Collection this collection contains above 10 000 papyri fragments. It is housed at the University of Michigan.
*Oxyrhynchus Papyri these numerous papyri fragments were discovered by Grenfell and Hunt in and around Oxyrhynchus. The publication of these papyri is still in progress.
*Princeton Papyri it is housed at the Princeton University
*Rrylands Papyri this collection contains above 700 papyri, with 31 ostraca and 54 codices. It is housed at the John Rylands University Library
*Washington University Papyri Collection includes 445 manuscript fragments, dating from the first century bc to the eighth century AD. Housed at Washington University Libraries.
*Yale Papyrus Collection Numbers over six thousand inventoried items and is cataloged, digitally scanned, and accessible online for close study. It is housed at the Beinecke Library.
This site contains an excellent and scholarly look at recent developments in the understanding of how hieroglyphics are read, and how Joseph's translations are actually in accord with currently accepted translations of the texts. In my humble opinion, Joseph was even more inspired than he is given credit for. At the time, hieroglyphs weren't able to be read by hardly anyone, as they had just been started to be able to be read in 1822. Joseph made these translations around 1835, and was subsequently called a fraud ever since then. Now, egyptologists are just discovering that heiroglyphs can have many different meanings as they often portray a feeling or a sense of what is meant instead of a literal translation, and many of them can be read the same way or very similarly to how Joseph translated them.
There is also a fascinating account of how Joseph's ideas on temple ordinaces were influenced by the papyrii found in the book "The Story of the Book of Abraham: Mummies, Manuscripts, and Mormonism" by H. Donl Peterson, starting on page 114.
I have diabetes, and there are times I cannot safely fast. My wise bishop counseled me on an individual plan I could do, and I highly recommend you seek individual advice from your bishop. One size does not fit all.
As to the Book of Abraham, you don't have to trust the (excellent) research of Hugh Nibley or other experts - or even myself. Fast & pray to your Heavenly Father for your answer, if it's really that important to your salvation and testimony.
Our best wishes & prayers for you!
Fast offerings, however, are seen in a different light. Once a month, as you probably know, many Mormons fast for spiritual reasons. In principle, they donate the money they would have spent on food to help the needy. In practice, however, Mormons often donate much more than the cost of the missed meals if they are financially able. If your financial situation does not allow you to donate as much to fast offerings as would otherwise be possible because you have donated to another charity, that's perfectly alright. Members are encouraged to use their own discretion when determining how much to pay for fast offerings.
If you have hypoglycemia or some other medical condition that complicates fasting, you should not fast. You can still participate in your congregation's fast, however, by bearing your testimony on fast Sundays if you like, paying fast offerings, and praying for the spiritual blessings that would have come had you been able to fast. I'm certain God understands your unique circumstances.
Regarding the Book of Abraham, my understanding is that most Mormon scholars believe that the papyrus text that Joseph obtained was a copy of Abraham's words, not the original. There are even those who would argue that the papyrus served only as a divinely supplied "prop" to give Joseph, who was not a translator in the academic sense of the word, some needed confidence. These would argue that the Book of Abraham was actually received solely by revelation, as was the Book of Moses. It's impossible to tell, since, contrary to the claims of some, the evidence suggests that the original text Joseph used was lost in the great Chicago fire of 1871.
Regardless of the details, it's the text of the Book of Abraham, which is available for all to read, that is the best evidence of its own truthfulness. The Book of Abraham is one of the most interesting books in the Mormon canon.