Hi, I am very interested in your church because its members seem so happy and to live such wonderful lives by example. I even prayed if the church was true and felt that it is. However I, thinking of converting from a Christian background would just like to clarify if the following beliefs are true from actual mormons: 1) That mormons believe they can become God-like, though not equal to him or anyhting like that in the afterlife: “… God himself was once as we are now and is an exalted man and sits enthroned in yonder heavens…” (Journal of Discourses, v6, p3, 1844) 2) That you believe that Jesus came back to earth and visited America, where there were elephants and bees etc that have been proven not to have been there. 3) That your church has made false prophecies in the past: Joseph Smith stated that ‘The meeting had been called, because God had commanded it; and it was made known to him by vision and by the Holy Spirit… It was the will of God that those who went to zion, with a determination to lay down their lives, if necessary, should be ordained to the ministry, and to go forth to prune the vineyard for the last time, or the coming of the Lord, which was nighddeven fifty-six years should wind up the scene” (History of the Church 2:182). This statement was made in February of 1835 and obviously did not come to pass. Please help me. An interested supporter.
One Response to “Hi, I am very interested in your church because its members …”
Daniel Rios
2010-07-26 05:23:18
Hi John. I'm very happy that you're interested in my Church! I've been Mormon for many years, and it's brought spiritual peace and stability into my life. My relationship with Jesus Christ has been strengthened as I've learned about Him and felt the influence of His Holy Spirit through the restored gospel. Let me answer some of your questions briefly. If you'd like any further clarification on any of these issues, please don't hesitate to contact me.
Was God Once a Fallen, Mortal Man Like Us?
Your description of exaltation is excellent. We believe that, under God's influence and tutelage, we can progress to become more like Him in the next life, but He'll always be our God and our Father, and we'll always worship Him. The doctrine of exaltation is very important in Mormonism. However, the idea that God was once a man, especially a fallen man, is much less certain. It's rarely discussed in the Church, and is not one of our central doctrines. I recently discussed God the Father's alleged mortality in depth on this website.
Do Mormons Believe that Jesus Christ Visited the Americas?
The Book of Mormon has been translated into many languages.
Yes, Mormons believe that following His resurrection, Jesus Christ visited many peoples outside of ancient Israel. As He explained, "And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd" (John 10:16). We don't have a record of most of Christ's post-mortal earthly ministry. However, the Book of Mormon does record His visit to the ancient American continent.
That there were elephants and bees in ancient America is obviously not an important part of our theology, but I'll answer your question just the same. Strictly speaking, the Book of Mormon does not say there were bees in the Americas, though there are examples of pre-Columbian bee species (Melipona beecheii and Melipona yucatanica, for example).
"Elephants" are only mentioned once in the Book of Mormon. They are associated with a people (the Jaradites) who some believe lived approximately 2500 BC, but that date is based on a dubious biblical chronology that is not reliable in my opinion. It is well known that certain mammoth species did exist in the ancient Americas; specimens have been found in Tennessee dating to 7000 BC. Additional evidence has been found for a Mammoth population in St. Paul Island, Alaska, that lived up until 3750 BC, though it is unlikely that the Book of Mormon people lived in this arctic setting. Another elephant-like species, the Gomphotheres, survived until 7000 BC in South America. One book, The Illustrated Encylcopedia of Dinosaurs and Prehistoric Animals by Dr Douglas Palmer, even suggests that some Gomphotheres might have lived until 400 AD, though that late date seems unlikely. Mastodons also lived in the Americas up until at least 7000 BC.
Did Joseph Smith Prophesy the Date of the Second Coming?
Before answering your question, I'd like to address the premise of your question. Mormons don't believe that prophets, ancient or modern, are infallible. The Bible records several prophecies that were never fulfilled. That does not invalidate the true prophetic and apostolic callings of the authors of that sacred record.
In this case, however, Joseph's words have been taken out of context. Joseph Smith explicitly stated on several occasions that he did not know the date of the second coming:
"Brethren, when you go home, write this down, that it may be remembered. Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come. Go and read the scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers."
Again in 1844, "And they have done unto the Son of Man even as they listed; and he has taken his power on the right hand of his glory, and now reigneth in the heavens, and will reign till he descends on the earth to put all enemies under his feet, which time is nigh at hand—I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes."
The quote recorded in History of the Church 2:182 is clearly related to a conditional prophesy Joseph recorded in D&C 130:14-16. In that prophesy, God told Joseph that if he lived until he was 85 years old, "thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man." Joseph confessed on that occasion that he didn't know exactly what the Lord meant; the Second Coming was only one speculated possibility. "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face."
Was God Once a Fallen, Mortal Man Like Us?
Your description of exaltation is excellent. We believe that, under God's influence and tutelage, we can progress to become more like Him in the next life, but He'll always be our God and our Father, and we'll always worship Him. The doctrine of exaltation is very important in Mormonism. However, the idea that God was once a man, especially a fallen man, is much less certain. It's rarely discussed in the Church, and is not one of our central doctrines. I recently discussed God the Father's alleged mortality in depth on this website.
Do Mormons Believe that Jesus Christ Visited the Americas?
That there were elephants and bees in ancient America is obviously not an important part of our theology, but I'll answer your question just the same. Strictly speaking, the Book of Mormon does not say there were bees in the Americas, though there are examples of pre-Columbian bee species (Melipona beecheii and Melipona yucatanica, for example).
"Elephants" are only mentioned once in the Book of Mormon. They are associated with a people (the Jaradites) who some believe lived approximately 2500 BC, but that date is based on a dubious biblical chronology that is not reliable in my opinion. It is well known that certain mammoth species did exist in the ancient Americas; specimens have been found in Tennessee dating to 7000 BC. Additional evidence has been found for a Mammoth population in St. Paul Island, Alaska, that lived up until 3750 BC, though it is unlikely that the Book of Mormon people lived in this arctic setting. Another elephant-like species, the Gomphotheres, survived until 7000 BC in South America. One book, The Illustrated Encylcopedia of Dinosaurs and Prehistoric Animals by Dr Douglas Palmer, even suggests that some Gomphotheres might have lived until 400 AD, though that late date seems unlikely. Mastodons also lived in the Americas up until at least 7000 BC.
Given the uncertainty associated with the Book of Mormon date and the scant and evolving scientific evidence, it is not at all impossible that there could have been an elephant-like species in the Americas at roughly the time the Book of Mormon indicates.
Did Joseph Smith Prophesy the Date of the Second Coming?
Before answering your question, I'd like to address the premise of your question. Mormons don't believe that prophets, ancient or modern, are infallible. The Bible records several prophecies that were never fulfilled. That does not invalidate the true prophetic and apostolic callings of the authors of that sacred record.
In this case, however, Joseph's words have been taken out of context. Joseph Smith explicitly stated on several occasions that he did not know the date of the second coming:
"Brethren, when you go home, write this down, that it may be remembered. Jesus Christ never did reveal to any man the precise time that He would come. Go and read the scriptures, and you cannot find anything that specifies the exact hour He would come; and all that say so are false teachers."
Again in 1844, "And they have done unto the Son of Man even as they listed; and he has taken his power on the right hand of his glory, and now reigneth in the heavens, and will reign till he descends on the earth to put all enemies under his feet, which time is nigh at hand—I, the Lord God, have spoken it; but the hour and the day no man knoweth, neither the angels in heaven, nor shall they know until he comes."
The quote recorded in History of the Church 2:182 is clearly related to a conditional prophesy Joseph recorded in D&C 130:14-16. In that prophesy, God told Joseph that if he lived until he was 85 years old, "thou shalt see the face of the Son of Man." Joseph confessed on that occasion that he didn't know exactly what the Lord meant; the Second Coming was only one speculated possibility. "I was left thus, without being able to decide whether this coming referred to the beginning of the millennium or to some previous appearing, or whether I should die and thus see his face."