Out of idle curiosity, if Mormons believe that murder is an ‘unforgivable’ sin, why is there is list of military Mormons on the site? Also, if the second ‘unforgivable’ sin is denying the Holy Spirit, where does that leave people who do good but don’t believe in the Christian God/Gods (i.e. Atheists, Buddhists, Jainists, Hindus etc). All I really know about Mormon beliefs I found on this site in the past half an hour, and I am just curious about the bits that are undoubtedly interesting but unclear. Sorry if these questions have already been asked- I searched but couldn’t find an answer.
4 Responses to “Out of idle curiosity, if Mormons believe that murder is an …”
Pamela Dean
2009-12-19 13:49:54
Hello, friend, Technically speaking, murder is defined as "the shedding of innocent blood" (Alma 39: 5). So, a soldier who kills someone during war for the protection of their country has not committed murder, but acted for the defense of himself and his country. Similarly, throughout the scriptures there are examples of good people who were commanded by God to kill others. Since they were following the commandment of God, they have not committed an unforgivable sin.
"Denying the Holy Ghost" does not mean good people who for whatever reason do not believe in the Christian God or who have not heard of our church. It means people who have acknowledged God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, and who later deny it, particularly church members who have received their endowments and later apostasize.
Alma 39: 6 further explains both: "For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness..."
Hope that answers your questions.
Clarissa Reed
2009-12-19 16:27:37
War is sometimes a nessecary evil. We are bound by faith and law to follow the law of the land and obey the rulers thereof (Article of Faith #12). The Lord permits this when it is done in defense of self, family, or country. Don't forget that he allowed the ancient Israelites to wipe out their foes.
We aren't like some other religions in saying that whoever isn't like us is dammned to hell. Those who were not members of the Church will have the chance to learn about the gospel and accept if they want to. It isn't thier fault that no one ever told them. You will not be punished for unwilling ignorance. If you are truly interested, you can always find your nearest member or missionary and ask them personally.
Webmaster
2009-12-20 03:12:30
Hi friend. Thanks for these very interesting questions. Your first question about murder is very challenging. The simple answer is that I don't know whether or not murder can be forgiven. Let me elaborate.
What is murder?
Mormons consider murder to be the "deliberate and unjustified taking of human life." The following activities are not generally considered murder:
Careless accident
Defense of self or others
Crimes committed by those who are mentally deficient
Killing by military officers acting under orders during times of war
That doesn't mean that military officers are free to kill whomever they want indiscriminately. It is certainly possible for soldiers to commit legitimate murders during wartime, especially if they lust after killing, kill unnecessarily, or kill as vigilantes rather than as representatives of their government. In the end, God will be the final judge.
That having been said, I don't know if the question of whether or not murder is forgivable has actually been settled. I've heard opinions going both ways. Let me present both cases.
Case 1: Murder is Forgivable
A few scriptures that suggest murder can be forgiven:
A relevant quote from President Boyd K. Packer, currently an apostle: "I repeat, save for the exception of the very few who defect to perdition, there is no habit, no addiction, no rebellion, no transgression, no apostasy, no crime exempted from the promise of complete forgiveness. That is the promise of the Atonement of Christ." (Boyd K. Packer, "The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness," New Era, Apr 2005, 4)
Additionally, murderers can be baptized with special permission from the First Presidency of the Church. What would be the purpose of being baptized if forgiveness is not possible?
Case 2: Murder is not Forgivable
A few scriptures that suggest that murder cannot be forgiven:
President Kimball also taught in one of his books, The Miracle of Forgiveness (pg. 129), that obtaining forgiveness for murder is impossible. Joseph Fielding Smith, as an apostle, wrote in his book Doctrines of Salvation 2:192 that vicarious work, judged necessary for salvation, should not be performed for deceased murderers
In his book Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie took an intermediate view. He taught that murderers are eventually forgiven in the sense that all sins are forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost. However, while murderers will not suffer eternally, they will not be allowed to progress spiritually in the next life either. After spending some time in hell, they will go a "lesser heaven," so to speak.
Denying the Holy Ghost
Finally, the sin of denying the Holy Ghost is much more than just denying the Christian God. To be guilty of this sin, one must have an absolute knowledge of God's existence. He must receive the Holy Ghost (part of the Mormon baptismal rite), have the heavens opened to him, know God, but then choose to deny Him. Very few people meet this standard, so in the Mormon conception very few people will go to hell. Those of other faiths will have the opportunity to accept Jesus in the next life and so will not suffer eternally. Many of them will prepare themselves not only for heaven, but for the "highest heaven," where they can progress eternally under God's tutelage.
Ironically, then, while many Christians believe those of other faiths will go to hell, Mormons technically believe that only Mormons can receive eternal damnation, though it's hard for me to believe that people like Hitler won't be in hell too.
Bree
2010-06-15 02:30:09
Soldiers are not murderers. They are bound by law and also hopefully by their love of their families and countries to protect us and our freedoms, as well as give freedom to others. They go knowing that the guy on the other side will be trying to kill them. They both know that there is a chance they will be dead the next day. I think that is the difference between war and murder. In murder, the dead is innocent, and had no intention of harming. I have a cousin who is a soldier (and a member). I don't know him very well, but I could never think of him as a murderer, and I think that I would be highly offended if the church asked us to think of them as such.
Others have already answered as well, if not better then I have, but the question caught my attention.
"Denying the Holy Ghost" does not mean good people who for whatever reason do not believe in the Christian God or who have not heard of our church. It means people who have acknowledged God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost, and who later deny it, particularly church members who have received their endowments and later apostasize.
Alma 39: 6 further explains both: "For behold, if ye deny the Holy Ghost when it once has had place in you, and ye know that ye deny it, behold, this is a sin which is unpardonable; yea, and whosoever murdereth against the light and knowledge of God, it is not easy for him to obtain forgiveness..."
Hope that answers your questions.
We aren't like some other religions in saying that whoever isn't like us is dammned to hell. Those who were not members of the Church will have the chance to learn about the gospel and accept if they want to. It isn't thier fault that no one ever told them. You will not be punished for unwilling ignorance. If you are truly interested, you can always find your nearest member or missionary and ask them personally.
What is murder?
Mormons consider murder to be the "deliberate and unjustified taking of human life." The following activities are not generally considered murder:
- Careless accident
- Defense of self or others
- Crimes committed by those who are mentally deficient
- Killing by military officers acting under orders during times of war
That doesn't mean that military officers are free to kill whomever they want indiscriminately. It is certainly possible for soldiers to commit legitimate murders during wartime, especially if they lust after killing, kill unnecessarily, or kill as vigilantes rather than as representatives of their government. In the end, God will be the final judge.That having been said, I don't know if the question of whether or not murder is forgivable has actually been settled. I've heard opinions going both ways. Let me present both cases.
Case 1: Murder is Forgivable
A few scriptures that suggest murder can be forgiven:
- Alma 39:6
- 3 Nephi 30
- Alma 24:10
A relevant quote from President Boyd K. Packer, currently an apostle: "I repeat, save for the exception of the very few who defect to perdition, there is no habit, no addiction, no rebellion, no transgression, no apostasy, no crime exempted from the promise of complete forgiveness. That is the promise of the Atonement of Christ." (Boyd K. Packer, "The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness," New Era, Apr 2005, 4)Additionally, murderers can be baptized with special permission from the First Presidency of the Church. What would be the purpose of being baptized if forgiveness is not possible?
Case 2: Murder is not Forgivable
A few scriptures that suggest that murder cannot be forgiven:
- D&C 42:79
- 1 John 3:15
- D&C 42:18
President Kimball also taught in one of his books, The Miracle of Forgiveness (pg. 129), that obtaining forgiveness for murder is impossible. Joseph Fielding Smith, as an apostle, wrote in his book Doctrines of Salvation 2:192 that vicarious work, judged necessary for salvation, should not be performed for deceased murderersIn his book Mormon Doctrine, Bruce R. McConkie took an intermediate view. He taught that murderers are eventually forgiven in the sense that all sins are forgiven except the sin against the Holy Ghost. However, while murderers will not suffer eternally, they will not be allowed to progress spiritually in the next life either. After spending some time in hell, they will go a "lesser heaven," so to speak.
Denying the Holy Ghost
Finally, the sin of denying the Holy Ghost is much more than just denying the Christian God. To be guilty of this sin, one must have an absolute knowledge of God's existence. He must receive the Holy Ghost (part of the Mormon baptismal rite), have the heavens opened to him, know God, but then choose to deny Him. Very few people meet this standard, so in the Mormon conception very few people will go to hell. Those of other faiths will have the opportunity to accept Jesus in the next life and so will not suffer eternally. Many of them will prepare themselves not only for heaven, but for the "highest heaven," where they can progress eternally under God's tutelage.
Ironically, then, while many Christians believe those of other faiths will go to hell, Mormons technically believe that only Mormons can receive eternal damnation, though it's hard for me to believe that people like Hitler won't be in hell too.
Others have already answered as well, if not better then I have, but the question caught my attention.